# What Movies Were in the Noir Montage (And What Are Some Other Good Noirs?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449 "2006-03-07T23:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/21 "2006-03-08T15:51:56Z")
> [@JoeSki](#): > > Great opening line too I first heard Personville called Poisonville by a man who also called his shirt a “shoit.” Although I’m a bigger Chandler fan than Hammett, Red Harvest is an outstanding book. Just so relentless. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/22 "2006-03-08T16:03:24Z")
For new Noir\* and noir inspired films, I would go with: Sin City Momento LA Confidential Last Man Standing Jade Kiss of Death Basic Instinct pretty much anything directed by Brian De Palma Also, I would include Sci Fi Noir like: Blade Runner Dark City The Matrix as well as Noir inspired Anime like Cowboy Bebop. \*To be considered Noir a film must contain: Minimalist soundtrack Main character is a hard core jaded loner He usually has some fat nebish he consults with or reports to He’s usually fighting some monolithic syndicate or conspiracy that goes “straight to the top” Lots of really hot femme fatale type chicks A ceiling fan casting a shadow Venician blinds casting a shadow Most of it takes place at night, in the rain If a scene takes place during the day it has that stark look and feel like one would expect from starting your day at 2 in the afternoon after an all-night bender ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/23 "2006-03-08T20:16:24Z")
Is there anywhere on the Web I can see this montage? I missed it on Oscar night. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/24 "2006-03-08T20:29:46Z")
I have a great list somewhere at home. Consider this a placeholder post reminding me to dig it up. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/25 "2006-03-09T00:42:10Z")
my vote for best of new noir is: dead again. this movie is finestkind. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/26 "2006-03-09T02:10:05Z")
**joeski** , that totally didn’t occur to me. I might have to see the movie again sometime. Yikes, there’s lots of movies here. I’m going to have to keep coming back to this thread since I don’t want to add all these to my Netflix queue at once. Could Chinatown be considered a noir? ---
**Author:** ![JoeSki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JoeSki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeSki)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/27 "2006-03-09T04:17:30Z")
**Chinatown** is absolutely a noir, and so is it’s sequel **The Two Jakes**. Personally, I don’t care much for it. There were two bits of dialogue I liked and found the ending to be refreshingly brutal and, er, deadpan. I found the rest of it to be a snore, but then the AFI and the rest of the free world as I know it would disagree with me ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/28 "2006-03-09T04:31:17Z")
In addition to Chandler and Hammett (and Cain), some of the best literary \*noir \* was written by Cornell Woolrich–especially \*I Married a Dead Man \* and _Rendezvous in Black_. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/29 "2006-03-09T05:02:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > \*To be considered Noir a film must contain: > Minimalist soundtrack > Main character is a hard core jaded loner > He usually has some fat nebish he consults with or reports to > He’s usually fighting some monolithic syndicate or conspiracy that goes “straight to the top” > Lots of really hot femme fatale type chicks > A ceiling fan casting a shadow > Venician blinds casting a shadow > Most of it takes place at night, in the rain > If a scene takes place during the day it has that stark look and feel like one would expect from starting your day at 2 in the afternoon after an all-night bender Thanks for the criteria list, I always kinda wondered what qualifies a film as noir. And, I’m glad to say, **Brick** pretty well covers each one. Though I don’t for sure rememember any Venetian blinds shots, there is a pretty excellent ceiling fan. For anyone interested, [the trailer is here](http://www.brickmovie.net/) . It opens March 31. And I promise to henceforth stop the shameless promo for this movie (in this thread, anyway…) **Marley23** , I don’t have much influence on who Joseph befriends, but I’ll try to put a good word in for you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/30 "2006-03-09T05:16:56Z")
Thanks for the tip. The trailer and your description have more than piqued my interest. Is this going to get a wide release? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/31 "2006-03-09T05:23:08Z")
Already mentioned, but let me second **Out of the Past**. My favorite film noir, and I’ve seen a bunch. Also, if you’re not averse to foreign films, there are lots of good movies in the genre from overseas (mostly France). **Rififi** is a great one; **Le Cercle Rouge** is a good example of (relatively) modern film noir. Also, though not completely noir (lacking the typical fatalistic ending, which is also somewhat true of the previously mentioned **Pickup on South Street** ), **Bob Le Flambeur** (remade recently as **The Good Thief** with Nick Nolte, which was also decent) is worth checking out. Also try **Le Trou** (technically a prison movie, but noir through-and-through) and **Coup de Torchon** (made in the 80s; based on Jim Thompson’s excellent _Pop. 1280_). For comedic/parodic takes on the genre, try **Big Deal on Madonna Street** (Italian) or **Band of Outsiders** (Jean-Luc Godard’s slightly whimsical take on the form). Also, though it’s mostly seen as an action movie, **Wages of Fear** works as noir. All the movies I mentioned (aside from “Out of the Past”) are available from the Criterion Collection, so the transfers are excellent. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/32 "2006-03-09T05:24:31Z")
Oh, almost forgot - Kurosawa’s **High and Low** (also from Criterion). ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/33 "2006-03-09T16:39:45Z")
Chinatown is definitely noir; it’s a perfect Phillip Marlowe movie, even though it doesn’t technically have Phillip Marlowe in it. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/34 "2006-03-09T16:50:15Z")
Not in the Oscar montage, but I would recommend Edgar G. Ulmer’s **Detour** (1945). Ann Savage portrays a femme fatale that out-femme-fatales them all. I still get a chill when she askes, “Where’d you hide the body?” ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/35 "2006-03-10T01:28:40Z")
A list of Darn Good Noir Movies I picked up somewhere. I have about three pages more, but I don’t want to type them out. Ace in the Hole (The Big Carnival) (1951). Stars Kirk Douglas. Social commentary. Kirk Douglas is a reporter trying to get out of the small time. He takes advantage of the plight of a man trapped in a mine collapse. Things go out of control, as the public is… well. Interesting, as it is clearly noir, but daylight and rural. The Big Sleep (1946) Really. What can I say? Body And Soul (1947) Prizefighter climbs the ladder of success. Man looking for the big score, with nothing to offer but his body. Double Indemnity (1944) Fred MacMurray seduced by a woman into murdering her husband and collecting his insurance. Key Largo (1948) Bogart, Bacall, Edward G. Robinson… trapped in a hotel as a hurricane approaches. The Killers (1946) The Killing (1956) Laura (1944) The Lost Weekend (1945) The Maltese Falcon (1941) The Night of the Hunter (1955) Nightmare Alley (1947) Out of the Past (1947) Shadow of a Doubt (1943) Strangers on a Train (1951) Sunset Boulevard (1950) Sweet Smell of Success (1957) The Third Man (1949) Touch of Evil (1958) Sometimes called the last true Film Noir. Orson Welles, directed. Masterpiece. White Heat (1949) ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/36 "2006-03-10T07:19:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Thanks for the tip. The trailer and your description have more than piqued my interest. Is this going to get a wide release? From the **How to see Brick** Forum on [the website](http://www.brickmovie.net/home.html) : > [@](#): > > …our US theatrical release date is 3/31/06. This will be in Los Angeles at the Arclight, and in New York at the Angelica. Not to worry though - one week later on 4/7 we’ll be opening in about a dozen other cities, and even more the following week. I’ll post which ones when I get a confirmed list. So, it sounds like if your town is large enough to have an art-house theater, **Brick** will probably make it there eventually. It’s funny, [one of the forums](http://www.rcjohnso.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20) on the **Brick** website is also discussing recommended _noir_. I can’t find the post now, but I think someone over there projects that noir will see a surge in popularity soon, similar to the swing-dance craze of the mid-90s. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/37 "2006-03-10T07:24:16Z")
> [@JoeSki](#): > > **Chinatown** is absolutely a noir, and so is it’s sequel **The Two Jakes**. Personally, I don’t care much for it. There were two bits of dialogue I liked and found the ending to be refreshingly brutal and, er, deadpan. I found the rest of it to be a snore, but then the AFI and the rest of the free world as I know it would disagree with me The original or the sequel? I didn’t know that Chinatown had a sequel, now I’ve got to see it! (I only saw Chinatown for the first time not too long ago… great great movie) I’ve seen High and Low. That one reminded me of Hitchcock. ---
**Author:** ![JoeSki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JoeSki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeSki)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/38 "2006-03-10T07:31:02Z")
Chinatown. Maybe it was boring because I didn’t give it my full attention, or maybe I didn’t give it my full attention because I found it boring. In any case, I remember disliking most of Chinatown, though I like Raymond Chandler’s books. Never saw The Two Jakes, I’ve just heard about it being a sequel to Chinatown ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/39 "2006-03-10T08:02:43Z")
Another that I don’t think has been mentioned yet (although I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) is _The Shanghai Gesture_ (1941). One woman’s descent into degradation in the clutches of the exquisitely evil (and magnificently coiffed) Mother Gin Sling. Seriously, leaving aside everything else the movie is worth watching just for the hairdos they slap on Ona Munson. More insanely cantilevered than Cher and Patti LaBelle’s most fevered dreams. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449/40 "2006-03-10T09:13:13Z")
> [@JoeSki](#): > > Never saw The Two Jakes, I’ve just heard about it being a sequel to Chinatown You done good. That was one of those “I wish I had those two hours of my life back” movies, only it seemed like three hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-movies-were-in-the-noir-montage-and-what-are-some-other-good-noirs/347449.md?page=3)