# What needs to change to prevent a repeat of the past four years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092 "2021-01-21T13:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/101 "2021-01-23T01:28:13Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > The popular vote makes for a nice talking point but it doesn’t ultimately matter for winning power. You were the one who brought up popular support and demographics. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/102 "2021-01-23T03:10:52Z")
National election standards. I know the Constitution says that elections are up to the states, but that’s just a good way to get an election hacked. Especially when decisions a the state level are usually made by the worst kind of partisans. Might not have changed anything this time around, but it’s going to be a problem eventually. Reform the Senate to keep the Majority Leader from having so much control over what comes to the floor. McConnell shouldn’t have been able to unilaterally decide that they wouldn’t have hearings on Garland. (And yes, I believe this even though the ML is from my party now.) All in all, there are a million things we can do to put up guard rails against the kinds of things Trump did, but the only way to really prevent those kinds of shenanigans is to not elect horrible people who don’t believe in government. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/103 "2021-01-23T05:36:51Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > I live in the Georgia 6th, which is pretty much the poster child for that suburban voter you are talking about. We’ve been moving left steadily since Newt Gingrich decided to bail. We currently have representation from a African-American, DACA-loving, LGBTQ-friendly, Planned Parenthood fan. The woman she unseated, Karen Handel, is the person who barely defeated Jon Ossoff back when he first got into large-scale politics. Karen (sometimes it fits) tried to get her seat back in the past election and was beaten far worse than previously. Trump didn’t cause this as there wasn’t a cliff where it dropped off. It’s been a steady slide for decades. I’m also curious why you think things like abortion are a problem to discuss. Weren’t you of the opinion that abortion reduced future crime? On the other side, didn’t you also proclaim that the Democrats moderating our stance to allow room for mild racists and sexists was good for the party? > > I mean I guess we could listen to your advice instead of someone like Stacey Abrams, but I think I’ll stick with those on my side. First of all you may have me confused with someone else. I don’t think I have discussed the abortion/crime link on these boards. As for Georgia, Donald Trump practically went to war with the Georgia Republican party in the days leading up to the Senate elections. In that context it’s not clear that winning by 1-2 points in the two races is a sign of an enduring Democratic majority. Maybe Georgia could become the next Virginia. Or possibly it could become the next Florida and remain very close for decades despite demographic changes. The 2022 election will give a clearer picture. Even if Georgia moves over to the blue column, there are other states like Michigan and Wisconsin which are trending in the other direction and may well become red states over the next decade if the Democrats lose more white working class voters. States like Minnesota and NH are also a long-term worry. Right now Democrats aren’t building an enduring majority but rather a precarious 50-50 balance which could turn against them quickly if things go south. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/104 "2021-01-23T05:40:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Democrats have popular support. We’ve had it for a generation. Republicans are the ones with a demographic problem. They went all in on being the party for white men and that’s not working out for them in a country where only 30% of the people are white men. 27% if you don’t count gay white men. This. Georgia was an object lesson. When Democrats can motivate their voters, they can turn a red state blue. We don’t need constitutional amendments, we need to attack the tools of voter suppression across the board and continue to champion equality of opportunity. Creating a level playing field for the act of voting by all eligible voters allows the retaking of the state legislatures, which can then be used to establish redistricting rules that mitigate the impulses of both parties to gerrymander. It’s not a quick fix, but it is a high probability of success. Because the snake is dying. It is thrashing and biting in its death throes, but it is dying. Urbanization is going to continue. It will be harder and harder to gerrymander rural populations into dominance. Trends in interracial coupling is going to blur the lines racists love to draw. When everyone is or is related to a multi-racial family, how to define the “them”? Globalization is going to continue- it can’t be legislated away- it’s a geopolitical force. Jobs are increasingly going to require education and markets are going to need actual knowledge of “furriners” and their ways. There will always be hardcore of deplorables, proudly ignorant and bigoted. Make no mistake, the snake still has venom, it can still damage and even possibly kill, but it _is_ dying. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/105 "2021-01-23T06:00:27Z")
Are you saying that the Senate is required to give their consent? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/106 "2021-01-23T06:33:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Lantern2](#): > > > > The popular vote makes for a nice talking point but it doesn’t ultimately matter for winning power. > > You were the one who brought up popular support and demographics. Popular support in the context of winning elections i.e. popular support in swing states and districts. One problem with the Democrats is that they have succeeded in recent years in running up big margins in very blue states which leads them to overestimate their actual electoral position. In particular I am not sure whether it’s sunk in how close they were to losing everything in 2020: the Presidency, the House and the Senate. Flip around 10000 votes in the right places and it would have happened. Biden’s 7 million popular vote margin is not at all reflective of how close the race was. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/107 "2021-01-23T06:39:27Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > When Democrats can motivate their voters, they can turn a red state blue. We don’t need constitutional amendments, we need to attack the tools of voter suppression across the board and continue to champion equality of opportunity. > > Creating a level playing field for the act of voting by all eligible voters allows the retaking of the state legislatures, which can then be used to establish redistricting rules that mitigate the impulses of both parties to gerrymander. If you want a shocking example of what Republicans want, look at Florida. Over ten percent of adults in Florida are disenfranchised (and the percentage of black Florida adults who are disenfranchised approaches twenty-five percent). That’s over 1,600,000 people who can’t vote. Bush officially won Florida by 537 votes in 2000. Trump’s margin of victory in Florida was less than 120,000 votes. Personally, I feel we do need some constitutional amendments. Because any law that Democrats can enact that lets people vote can be repealed by Republicans who don’t want to let people vote. We need to make voting a constitutional right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/108 "2021-01-23T06:44:06Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > Popular support in the context of winning elections i.e. popular support in swing states and districts. One problem with the Democrats is that they have succeeded in recent years in running up big margins in very blue states which leads them to overestimate their actual electoral position. In particular I am not sure whether it’s sunk in how close they were to losing everything in 2020: the Presidency, the House and the Senate. Flip around 10000 votes in the right places and it would have happened. Biden’s 7 million popular vote margin is not at all reflective of how close the race was. It’s not the Democrats who are the problem. It’s the Republicans we need to fix. I don’t want the Democrats to start lying and cheating and stealing in order to win elections. I want the Republicans to stop lying and cheating and stealing in order to win elections. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/109 "2021-01-23T06:52:02Z")
Money isn’t speech but spending money to promote a message is definitely “press.” How are you going to regulate political messaging, and everything is political now, when freedom of the press is still nominally a constitutional right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/110 "2021-01-23T09:03:59Z")
Yes, they can say yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/111 "2021-01-23T09:05:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We need to make voting a constitutional right. Well, it is and for decades the Supreme court enforced that, but the GOP and the South "convinced’ the Court they had changed, and didnt need any supervision any more. Then they went straight back to Jim Crow. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/112 "2021-01-23T10:20:24Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > First of all you may have me confused with someone else. I don’t think I have discussed the abortion/crime link on these boards. Am I mistaken in my understanding that you were here under the username **Lantern** prior to the board change? If so, I apologize for the misplaced attribution. > [@Lantern2](#): > > Right now Democrats aren’t building an enduring majority but rather a precarious 50-50 balance which could turn against them quickly if things go south. I’ll actually agree that many Democrats aren’t currently doing the proper things to build that enduring majority, although now that we have some power, I fully expect some of the issues to be corrected. I’m simply certain that following your path to the right isn’t the way to get there, but instead correcting the electoral issues plaguing this country as I mentioned already and increasing voter turnout across the board is the best path. Stacey Abrams has been sharing her playbook with groups across the country. We’d be foolish not to follow her advice. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/113 "2021-01-23T10:44:33Z")
No I was Lantern. When did I discuss abortion/crime? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/114 "2021-01-23T11:13:07Z")
> [@Why The Great Recovery?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-the-great-recovery/573153/24): > > There is of course the famous argument by Levitt/Donahue that legalization of abortion in the early 70’s contributed to falling crime rates in the 1990’s. There has been a [debate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime) about the paper but their argument and evidence still looks pretty convincing. I was pretty sure I remembered from some years back similar arguments to the ones you are making here and ran across that post as well as the racism/sexism posts in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/115 "2021-01-23T12:01:37Z")
OK that was ten years back and I didn’t remember that post. In any case, my point about abortion is that Democrats should be prepared to recruit more pro-life candidates to win races in places which are strongly pro-life. They should go back to their old language about making abortion “safe,legal and rare”. And they should be prepared to compromise on issues like the Hyde Amendment. All these are consistent with being a broadly pro-choice party and were in line with the policies of both Bill Clinton and Obama. Since then they have moved significantly to the left on abortion, in ways that are probably damaging to their electoral prospects. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/116 "2021-01-23T13:42:13Z")
I bet more celebs run. Celebs have a good track record of winning races. Arnold S, Jesse Ventura, Sonny Bono, and others . ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/117 "2021-01-23T16:03:34Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > In any case, my point about abortion is that Democrats should be prepared to recruit more pro-life candidates to win races in places which are strongly pro-life. They should go back to their old language about making abortion “safe,legal and rare”. And they should be prepared to compromise on issues like the Hyde Amendment. All these are consistent with being a broadly pro-choice party and were in line with the policies of both Bill Clinton and Obama. Since then they have moved significantly to the left on abortion, in ways that are probably damaging to their electoral prospects. But I think you’re missing the larger point. The Democratic position is the majority position. I showed you the numbers; more people vote for Democrats on a consistent basis. If the Democrats try to appeal to the conservative minority, they will lose their majority support. The path you’re describing will weaken the Democratic party, not strengthen it. And this brings us to the largest point of all; we claim to be a democracy. So why do conservative minority candidates get declared the winner in elections when the other candidate got more votes? The only justifications Republicans seem to offer for such an obviously anti-democratic system is “shut up” or “we have to have a system like this in order to hold power”. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/118 "2021-01-23T16:42:18Z")
The Dems won bigger both in terms of the popular vote and electoral college/seats in 2006-8 when they had more moderate positions on immigration and abortion. I am not particularly a supporter of the electoral college but there are obviously defenses of the system which go beyond “shut up”. For example this [piece](http://austinclemens.com/blog/data/electoral_college.pdf) by Richard Posner. In any event the point is moot. Whether you like it or not the electoral college will probably be around at least for another few decades. If the Dems want to actually build a governing majority that can win consecutive elections and push big policies they will need to craft their political strategy around that rather than crowing about how they keep winning the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/119 "2021-01-23T16:55:00Z")
The 50 Democratic senators represent 41 million more people than the 50 Republican senators. Push a growing majority too far on unfair representation and we will not be particularly choosy about the methods we choose to correct the problem. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092/120 "2021-01-23T20:17:54Z")
If they don’t have to consent, I’m not sure why you think they have to give advice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-needs-to-change-to-prevent-a-repeat-of-the-past-four-years/931092.md?page=7)