# What new weapons/weapons tactics have the Russians so far introduced in Ukraine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204 "2022-02-27T23:26:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/21 "2022-02-28T18:46:20Z")
Hell, we’re flying B-52s that were built at the latest 60 years ago. Like the tanks, though, they’re not your grandfather’s Stratofortress. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/22 "2022-02-28T20:59:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The T-72 have all been upgraded multiple times by the Russians, so they are also more or less equivalent to modern western tanks. Just like the Abrams has gone through multiple upgrade cycles to keep it relevant. Same with the T-90s. Ukraine’s T-64s have also been upgraded quite extensively, and in fact, they build new ones that have a lot of the upgrades in them. > > I think people tend to get stuck in the fact that those T-72s were first produced decades ago and don’t realize that countries that want to stay relevant wrt their militaries are constantly upgrading them with more advanced features and armor packages and the like. The Russians themselves have stated they have leaped ahead in tank technology. They touted their new vehicles over their own and everyone else’s. The problem is they can’t actually deliver any in useful numbers and no one knows if they even work. In the mean time we still have upgraded T-72s playing pop goes the weasel with their turrets. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/23 "2022-02-28T21:03:53Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Hell, we’re flying B-52s that were built at the latest 60 years ago. Like the tanks, though, they’re not your grandfather’s Stratofortress. The B-52 job is not the same as it was. It’s not expected to fly over contested airspace to deliver payloads. The B-52 of today is expected to fly over airspace where there is 100% air supremacy or to stand off about 1,000 miles and launch cruise missiles. It’s not Slim Pickens’ tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/24 "2022-03-01T04:53:24Z")
Wrt resisting tanks with improvised weapons, I read somewhere that razor wire can seriously jam tracked vehicles; but if that’s so why isn’t razor wire considered a serious obstacle anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/25 "2022-03-01T05:04:03Z")
The third phase of my army career was as a combat engineer. Concertina wire is certainly still used as an obstacle. The problem is it can easily and quickly be defeated by something like a Bangalore torpedo or the Russian equivalent ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/26 "2022-03-01T15:33:27Z")
[Reuters has an article](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-missiles-see-mixed-results-ukraine-war-world-watches-2022-02-28/) about the use of short range ballistic missiles and how this is the first real use of them (the Iskander that was mentioned above). Apparently other countries have them but don’t have any real world experience. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/27 "2022-03-01T16:08:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The problem is it can easily and quickly be defeated by something like a Bangalore torpedo or the Russian equivalent Which highlights the importance of including Combat Engineering in your maneuver formations. (As would minefields, but I haven’t heard of the Ukrainians doing that yet, since it’s their own land they’d be mining.) It probably doesn’t rise to the level of notability to be shown in the news, but are the Russians actually making use of engineering forces in their advance? There’s been some analysis that they’re not observing very good tactical manuever doctrine so far. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/28 "2022-03-01T16:30:51Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > As would minefields, but I haven’t heard of the Ukrainians doing that yet Land mines are the plastic straws of warfare. The public relations nightmare isn’t worth whatever military advantage they offer, and in this war PR is Ukraine’s biggest advantage. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/29 "2022-03-01T17:57:31Z")
Another detail not mentioned- the population of Russia is declining, men 20-29 make up only 5% of the population. and the next younger cohort isn’t much better. > **[Population Pyramids of the World from 1950 to 2100](https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2019/)** > > Russian Federation - 2019 This suggests to me a lot of Russian young men will see that they are being sucked into a venture as foolhardy as the Vietnam war was to Americans and the corresponding casualties - as they mount - will cause a certain amount of discord. Will this have implications for future attempts at enforcing conscription? Also saw news reports of the “Mothers of Army” are very upset - an organization put together in response to the Afghan war; plus that apparently the Russian law (if anyone cares) says draftees cannot be sent into combat; and that some Russian soldiers said they were told this was a training exercise. It’s possible their hearts are not in it? What are the implications in the future for this? I assume Chechnya, Georgia and Syria were small enough actions to just use a small, better trained fraction of the army. As for columns on the road - if a lucky strike takes one out the column, how easy is it to make the road passable or go around? Too much mud? Easy to push a wreck off the road? What about big holes blown in the road, what repair capabilities do they have? Obviously they are not using a lot of helicopter gunships, or an Apache equivalent, or the high flying gunships that the USA used in the Middle East - fear of SAM? I saw a news item that some NATO country has sold/supplied fighter aircraft to Ukraine the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/30 "2022-03-01T18:36:15Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > It probably doesn’t rise to the level of notability to be shown in the news, but are the Russians actually making use of engineering forces in their advance? There’s been some analysis that they’re not observing very good tactical manuever doctrine so far. I read a story about them [building a pontoon bridge](https://www.perild.com/2022/02/28/near-kiev-the-enemy-is-equipping-a-pontoon-bridge-general-staff/). I think the Ukrainians blew it up. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/31 "2022-03-01T18:43:28Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > to all of you with something of a military background: > > how do you feel about those endlessly long tank/supply-truck/armed-personnel carrier convoys? > > isnt that like shooting fish in a barrel? > > again, I am not a specialist in this at all, but just think of what a couple of warthogs pulling up from behind could do? > > any thoughts on that? are those long columns military “best practice”? If Ukraine had air superiority and a few A10s, I would imagine you would see a 40 mile long “Highway of Death”, similar to the one the coalition forces created in the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/32 "2022-03-01T18:43:51Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Also saw news reports of the “Mothers of Army” are very upset - an organization put together in response to the Afghan war; plus that apparently the Russian law (if anyone cares) says draftees cannot be sent into combat; and that some Russian soldiers said they were told this was a training exercise. It’s possible their hearts are not in it? > > As for columns on the road - if a lucky strike takes one out the column, how easy is it to make the road passable or go around? Too much mud? Easy to push a wreck off the road? What about big holes blown in the road, what repair capabilities do they have? > > Obviously they are not using a lot of helicopter gunships, or an Apache equivalent, or the high flying gunships that the USA used in the Middle East - fear of SAM? I saw a news item that some NATO country has sold/supplied fighter aircraft to Ukraine the other day. Interesting. That’s the first I’ve heard of that law. The old Soviet doctrine relied heavily on conscripts. Our professional NCO corps was always seen as a big advantage. I wonder how much things have changed. I have seen reports that maneuver is definitely hindered by the mud. It’s funny that Russia doesn’t learn from their own history. Mud season was harder on invading armies than the winter. It’s hard to tell just from the videos coming out. I saw one where a helicopter (possibly a MI-8 the camera was pretty far away) was shot down but it was in a large formation that continued on. Videos did show one maybe 2 KA-52 attack helicopters that had been shot down. Those are their most advanced helicopters. They have at least 130 of them. Helicopters are being used but it’s hard to tell how often. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/33 "2022-03-01T18:58:14Z")
I think the mention of the law was in an article (Daily Mail?) about Russian draft dodgers, including the huge increase in young men in the last year seeking asylum in the USA via Mexico. What I meant was I don’t see gunships lingering on scene circling and providing support like the Americans did with impunity in Iraq (and Vietnam?). I take this to mean they are not fully confident of their command of the skies, that the locals have some interesting SAMs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/34 "2022-03-01T19:00:18Z")
Yeah, that is up there with the guy in from of the tank at Tiamin square and Gaius Popillius Laenas. cojones. > [@msmith537](#): > > If Ukraine had air superiority and a few A10s, I would imagine you would see a 40 mile long “Highway of Death”, similar to the one the coalition forces created in the first Gulf War. We should give them some A-10s. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/35 "2022-03-01T19:09:09Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I think the mention of the law was in an article (Daily Mail?) about Russian draft dodgers, including the huge increase in young men in the last year seeking asylum in the USA via Mexico. > > What I meant was I don’t see gunships lingering on scene circling and providing support like the Americans did with impunity in Iraq (and Vietnam?). I take this to mean they are not fully confident of their command of the skies, that the locals have some interesting SAMs. Yes I’m sure you are correct. I was in Iraq late enough for that the threat from shoulder launched missiles was not there anymore. The Apaches flew high CAP over Baghdad. The Russians know there are a lot of MANPADS in Ukraine right now. They will not be lingering at altitude. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/36 "2022-03-01T21:49:45Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I saw a news item that some NATO country has sold/supplied fighter aircraft to Ukraine the other day. It fell through. The Ukrainians publicized it and even sent pilots to Poland to pick them up when the plan was just a ballloon being floated in the EU’s Security Council. The countries expected to contribute the Russian built planes, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Poland, quickly walked it back since they need those MiGs for their own defense. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/37 "2022-03-01T22:49:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We should give them some A-10s. Definitely should not. Would require months of pilot training on a completely unfamiliar aircraft, in addition to maintenance/mechanic training, spare parts, and an incompatible weapon/ ammunition system. War would be over long before they’d see any action, other than as expensive targets. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/38 "2022-03-01T22:59:27Z")
Yeah. If Ukrainians are going to fly them, they have to be the Russian-made planes they have trained in. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/39 "2022-03-02T01:38:43Z")
As I understand it, Russian air defenses are pretty good, especially for a low and slow aircraft like an A-10. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204/40 "2022-03-02T12:13:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If Ukraine had air superiority and a few A10s, I would imagine you would see a 40 mile long “Highway of Death”, similar to the one the coalition forces created in the first Gulf War. Might be just as well. During the previous Russia incursions into the Ukraine (2014?), there were a few instances where Russia had a few open “LOOK, RUSSIA ARE TRYING TO GET MILITARY FORCES ACROSS THE BORDER” incidents where it turned out that while all the attention was on that, they were steathily moving far more significant forces over the border elsewhere. One wonders whether this obvious convoy headed toward Kyiv is intended to distract from something else, divert and use up Ukrainian resources, and/or entice the West into intervening. It would certainly be consistent with Putin’s previous tactics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-new-weapons-weapons-tactics-have-the-russians-so-far-introduced-in-ukraine/960204.md?page=3)