# What? No Brittany Maynard thread? (terminal disease, doctor-assisted suicide) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765 "2014-10-19T05:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/221 "2014-11-04T21:55:14Z")
It’s a pity that religious extremists are so intent on controlling other persons’ lives. I’m a big fan of self-determination, so this sort of behavior rubs me the wrong way. BTW, I’ve drafted hundreds of Powers of Attorney for Personal Care (a.k.a. living wills). When it came to the “medicate for pain even if it may hasten death” and “pull the plug” clauses, only one client wanted to be kept alive in hope of a miracle (that person was, as you might guess, an extremely religious person). Everyone else? They strongly preferred to be kept comfortable and to be let go when the time came – in short, to pick their time in as far as the law would allow. Brittany Maynard picked her time, and should be respected for making a brave and carefully thought-out decision in the most difficult of circumstances. The way I see it, since most people are pro-choice when it comes to end of life decisions, the law should follow, as it is beginning to do in some jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/222 "2014-11-04T21:56:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And people wonder where Republicans come up with the “death panels” stuff from. Lol. You tack an ancient concept on to petty modern squabble as if it proves something. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/223 "2014-11-04T21:56:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **Smapti** chooses the cowardly answer in virtually every hypothetical offered (choosing not to make a tiny risk to free slaves, choosing to cause suffering to others over dying one second sooner, etc.), so he has no credibility in calling anyone at all a coward. If Charles Manson says OJ Simpson is a murderer, is he wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/224 "2014-11-04T21:58:18Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The way I see it, since most people are pro-choice when it comes to end of life decisions, the law should follow, as it is beginning to do in some jurisdictions. Yes, let’s establish laws that say a person should be left to die once society deems that their life is no longer worth living. I see absolutely no way that could end negatively. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/225 "2014-11-04T21:58:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The braver course would have been to continue existing. She chose to duck having to experience that. I’m sorry, I think you might be confused. You said that you feared death because… > [@Smapti](#): > > There is no afterlife. There’s no pearly gates and guys with wings wearing togas and strumming on harps all day. > > There’s no pit of fire. > > There’s no lurking around in abandoned houses and scaring kids who go in there on a dare. > > There’s not even eternal darkness and loneliness. > > One day, you just fall asleep and never wake up again. > > That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. And likewise… > [@Smapti](#): > > Something is always better than nothing. She didn’t duck the thing you fear the most. She hastened it. She didn’t accept something, which is always better than nothing; she chose the harder path. Per you; courageous. She faced what you fear the most head-on. > [@](#): > > The fact that she deemed death to be preferable to life only proves that she was insane in addition to being a coward. But wait a moment - just now, you said; > [@Smapti](#): > > Dying is the scary part of death. So\* you\* deem death to be preferable to life, too - you would much rather die than be dying. By your logic this would render you insane - would you care to make your statement more sufficiently detailed? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/226 "2014-11-04T22:00:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If Charles Manson says OJ Simpson is a murderer, is he wrong? It doesn’t matter; Manson would have no credibility so he’s not worth listening to on the subject. Nothing he says matters, and he could offer no useful analysis on the subject of morality. So far in this thread, **Smapti** , you’ve admitted to both being a coward and contributing to the “culture of death” with your answers to hypothetical situations. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/227 "2014-11-04T22:01:58Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > She didn’t duck the thing you fear the most. She hastened it. She didn’t accept something, which is always better than nothing; she chose the harder path. Per you; courageous. She faced what you fear the most head-on. Which just proves that she was insane, and that what she needed was _help_, not a bottle of pills and a jurisdiction willing to let people murder themselves. > [@](#): > > So\* you\* deem death to be preferable to life, too - you would much rather die than be dying. No, I would prefer to live forever. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/228 "2014-11-04T22:03:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t matter; Manson would have no credibility so he’s not worth listening to on the subject. Nothing he says matters, and he could offer no useful analysis on the subject of morality. So is Manson wrong or not? > [@](#): > > So far in this thread, **Smapti** , you’ve admitted to both being a coward and contributing to the “culture of death” with your answers to hypothetical situations. No, I have admitted to _hypothetically_ being a coward in the event that I develop magical genocide powers at the moment of my death. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/229 "2014-11-04T22:03:30Z")
ENOUGH! No more comments that other posters might be insane/cowardly/stupid/need-a-good-back-rub/whatever. Stick to the actual topic and leave the personal comments out of it. = = = Actually, this is much more of an IMHO thread than a serious debate, but after racking up this many posts in this period of time, I am not going to foist it off on the IMHO Mods. However, if it does not turn into a genuine debate pretty soon, I am going to close it and give everyone a chance to open a new IMHO thread on the topic without the baggage this thread is dragging around. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/230 "2014-11-04T22:05:02Z")
Smapti, has everyone ever suggested that you not behave out of fear? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/231 "2014-11-04T22:05:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Which just proves that she was insane, and that what she needed was _help_, not a bottle of pills and a jurisdiction willing to let people murder themselves. So you agree she was courageous? She faced the thing you fear the most head-on? > [@](#): > > No, I would prefer to live forever. No, you wouldn’t. You were quite clear; _dying is the scary part of death_. Living forever would mean, were you to find yourself with some long-term health problems, you would be _dying forever_. You’d experience the scary part of death forever. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/232 "2014-11-04T22:04:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That doesn’t mean I’m going to pussy out and skip it. Sure you are. In fact, you’re going to pussy out of _far_ more trivial things than that, as evidenced (for example) by your future presence on _any_ thread other than the one dedicated to proclaiming your cowardice, fascism, and idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/233 "2014-11-04T22:07:23Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > So you agree she was courageous? She faced the thing you fear the most head-on? No, she didn’t. She swallowed some pills and went to sleep. > [@](#): > > No, you wouldn’t. You were quite clear; _dying is the scary part of death_. Living forever would mean, were you to find yourself with some long-term health problems, you would be _dying forever_. You’d experience the scary part of death forever. Except that I _wouldn’t_ be, because I’d know that however much I was dying, the dying would never lead to death. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/234 "2014-11-04T22:11:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > No, she didn’t. She swallowed some pills and went to sleep. Straight into the big nothingness, which is the thing you cannot conceive anything more scary than being. You even described it back then as “you just fall asleep and never wake up again”. That’s what she did. So. Courageous! > [@](#): > > Except that I _wouldn’t_ be, because I’d know that however much I was dying, the dying would never lead to death. So what? Dying is the scary part of death,\* not \*the death part, as you said. You’re not doing the non-scary part. You’d be experiencing the scary part of death forever, by your own words. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/235 "2014-11-04T22:11:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t matter; Manson would have no credibility so he’s not worth listening to on the subject. Nothing he says matters, and he could offer no useful analysis on the subject of morality. I think you misspelled Manson. There are are [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=11535751) or [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723924&highlight=smapti) different ways of spelling it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/236 "2014-11-04T22:16:00Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Straight into the big nothingness, which is the thing you cannot conceive anything more scary than being. You even described it back then as “you just fall asleep and never wake up again”. That’s what she did. So. Courageous! So what? Dying is the scary part of death,\* not \*the death part, as you said. You’re not doing the non-scary part. You’d be experiencing the scary part of death forever, by your own words. The scary part of death is scary because it’s _followed_ by the big nothingness. Take away the nothingness and the dying part just becomes an inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/237 "2014-11-04T22:16:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The braver course would have been to continue existing. She chose to duck having to experience that. > > The fact that she deemed death to be preferable to life only proves that she was insane in addition to being a coward. The doctors that examined her say that she was sane. What qualifies you to overrule their prognosis? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/238 "2014-11-04T22:20:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The scary part of death is scary because it’s _followed_ by the big nothingness. Take away the nothingness and the dying part just becomes an inconvenience. Why should what scares _you_ make any difference in _my_ end of life decision? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/239 "2014-11-04T22:20:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The doctors that examined her say that she was sane. What qualifies you to overrule their prognosis? They were compelled by law to not view a desire to kill oneself as an indication of insanity. I am subject to no such obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/240 "2014-11-04T22:21:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The scary part of death is scary because it’s _followed_ by the big nothingness. Take away the nothingness and the dying part just becomes an inconvenience. Ah, ok. So given that Maynard had two options, dying - a mere inconvenience - and immediate death - horrifying, terrifying, the truly scary part of death - and she picked the latter, the harder option, makes her courageous, correct? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=13)