# What? No Brittany Maynard thread? (terminal disease, doctor-assisted suicide) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765 "2014-10-19T05:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/21 "2014-11-04T15:23:17Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > It’s not always possible. Sometimes the pain is intractable. Then you deal with it, because the capacity to feel pain means you exist. And existence is always objectively preferable to the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/22 "2014-11-04T15:27:34Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > So, which is it? Both. It is cowardly because it’s the easy way out; running away from your problems instead of dealing with them. And it’s insane because suicide is permanent and irrevocable; it cannot be taken back, it completely and permanently destroys every aspect of you as an entity, and forever robs the world of your presence. There is no possible scenario in life to which not existing is preferable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/23 "2014-11-04T15:32:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Then you deal with it, because the capacity to feel pain means you exist. > > And existence is always objectively preferable to the alternative. So, no [“Do Not Resuscitate”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate) options in the hospital, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/24 "2014-11-04T15:40:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, no [“Do Not Resuscitate”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate) options in the hospital, right? Correct. Doctors should not be in the business of allowing patients to die. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/25 "2014-11-04T15:42:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Correct. Doctors should not be in the business of allowing patients to die. Ugh. In your world, we’d all end up as lumps of meat on ventilators. No thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/26 "2014-11-04T15:46:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Both. It is cowardly because it’s the easy way out; running away from your problems instead of dealing with them. And it’s insane because suicide is permanent and irrevocable; it cannot be taken back, it completely and permanently destroys every aspect of you as an entity, and forever robs the world of your presence. There is no possible scenario in life to which not existing is preferable. How can you call my (hypothetical) actions cowardly (a moral judgment) if at the same time you claim that by making the choice to die I am not capable of making a moral choice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/27 "2014-11-04T15:49:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > How can you call my (hypothetical) actions cowardly (a moral judgment) if at the same time you claim that by making the choice to die I am not capable of making a moral choice. Who said anything about morality? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/28 "2014-11-04T15:51:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Correct. Doctors should not be in the business of allowing patients to die. Anyone here know/remember a sci-fi story where people are kept alive in a hospital indefinitely; human vegetables hooked up to life-providing drugs/machinery, because hey, it’s the modern age and no one has to die? It’s horrific, and the moral incorrectness of your position here, **Smapti** , should be clear. In a world where we can keep people’s brains and bodies powered indefinitely (not that far of a stretch), the idea of existence uber alles plays out in a freakish and unnatural way. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/29 "2014-11-04T15:53:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who said anything about morality? Calling someone a coward connotes a moral judgment. I don’t think that should come as a surprise to you or anyone who has ever used/heard that word before. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/30 "2014-11-04T15:53:53Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > It’s horrific, and the moral incorrectness of your position here, **Smapti** , should be clear. In a world where we can keep people’s brains and bodies powered indefinitely (not that far of a stretch), the idea of existence uber alles plays out in a freakish and unnatural way. A world where we can keep people’s brains and bodies powered indefinitely is the _goal_ of medicine as a science, and to an extent, of human existence as a whole. To deny the pursuit of eternal life is to deny humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/31 "2014-11-04T15:58:43Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Calling someone a coward connotes a moral judgment. Morality does not factor into the equation here. Cowardice is objectively defined as the refusal due to fear to carry out one’s obligations. To cause your own death is therefore objectively cowardly. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/32 "2014-11-04T15:59:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Courage is sticking it out and fighting to the last breath, not immediately and permanently ceasing your existence out of fear and pain, and it is a sign of a society that is decadent and in decline when the latter is praised over the former. > > When people find themselves in situations like this, we ought to be bending heaven and earth and dedicating every resource available to curing their ailment or allowing them to live their life in maximum peace and comfort, not encouraging them to off themselves because we don’t want to pay for it. So for some reason, you seem qualified to judge this woman. Surely you’ve not walked a day in her shoes, so how are you able to shout down on her (and like-minded posters) from your high position of omnipotence? It’s not like she held up your train by jumping in front of it today. You weren’t inconvenienced in the least, yet you still find the need to reflect negatively on her. I think she was quite brave in doing this and should be honored for bringing the issue of ending one’s life to the headlines for a few days. Also, what are these magical resources you’re talking about? Actually, I’m sure you can come up with a list so let me ask a different question. Who’s gonna pay for these resources you’re proposing? Our society is blossoming when we can have a honest discussion about an individual’s right to decide if they want to live or die. ETA… Hold on… _Obligation_?! What obligation did she have to you or society? As i understand it, she cleared all affairs with her family. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/33 "2014-11-04T16:03:53Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > So for some reason, you seem qualified to judge this woman. You seem to consider yourself qualified to judge her. What makes you more qualified than I? > [@](#): > > Surely you’ve not walked a day in her shoes, so how are you able to shout down on her (and like-minded posters) from your high position of omnipotence? You’ve not walked a day in her shoes either. > [@](#): > > It’s not like she held up your train by jumping in front of it today. I literally _have_ been on a train which was held up by someone jumping in front of it, so thanks for bringing back those traumatic memories. > [@](#): > > You weren’t inconvenienced in the least, yet you still find the need to reflect negatively on her. > > I think she was quite brave in doing this and should be honored for bringing the issue of ending one’s life to the headlines for a few days. We are all inconvenienced when suicide is treated as a lifestyle choice or an act of bravery rather than as a crime against the self. It cheapens the value of every human life when one is ended frivolously and needlessly. > [@](#): > > Also, what are these magical resources you’re talking about? Actually, I’m sure you can come up with a list so let me ask a different question. Who’s gonna pay for these resources you’re proposing? All of us. It is our civic obligation. > [@](#): > > Our society is blossoming when we can have a honest discussion about an individual’s right to decide if they want to live or die. No individual has the right to kill anyone. Including themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/34 "2014-11-04T16:07:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And existence is always objectively preferable to the alternative. Is it, though? Non-existence is the ultimate neutrality. There’s no good, no bad, no pain, no joy. It’s . . . nothing. If you’ve been diagnosed with a terminal illness which will leave you in an unbelievable amount of suffering in your final days, it makes logical sense to commit suicide. Neutrality is better than misery. I support the right to die; in my mind, the right of an individual diagnosed with a terminal illness to kill themselves is unarguably civilized. When you get into mental illness, it becomes much stickier, but I can’t see any sort of reasoning behind not allowing someone like Maynard to commit suicide beyond the time-worn “God doesn’t want you to”. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/35 "2014-11-04T16:19:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > \ > > No individual has the right to kill anyone. Including themselves. Where’s this come from? Your own head or you got a cite? You’re right, I haven’t walked a day in her shoes. That’s exactly why I support letting her do what the hell she wants to do. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/36 "2014-11-04T16:19:48Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Is it, though? Non-existence is the ultimate neutrality. There’s no good, no bad, no pain, no joy. It’s . . . nothing. Something is always better than nothing. > [@](#): > > If you’ve been diagnosed with a terminal illness which will leave you in an unbelievable amount of suffering in your final days, it makes logical sense to commit suicide. Neutrality is better than misery. It does not make sense to deprive yourself of those final days, nor to deprive those around you of them. > [@](#): > > I support the right to die; in my mind, the right of an individual diagnosed with a terminal illness to kill themselves is unarguably civilized. There is nothing civilized about suicide. > [@](#): > > When you get into mental illness, it becomes much stickier Desire to commit suicide is proof of mental illness. > [@](#): > > but I can’t see any sort of reasoning behind not allowing someone like Maynard to commit suicide beyond the time-worn “God doesn’t want you to”. As a human being you have a basic obligation to live. Death is a form of petty treason. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/37 "2014-11-04T16:21:43Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Where’s this come from? Your own head or you got a cite? Each human life is unique and valuable beyond measure. To destroy one is the greatest crime a person can commit. > [@](#): > > You’re right, I haven’t walked a day in her shoes. That’s exactly why I support letting her do what the hell she wants to do. Civilized society is based on _not_ just letting people “do what the hell they want to”. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/38 "2014-11-04T16:22:49Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > ETA… Hold on… _Obligation_?! What obligation did she have to you or society? As i understand it, she cleared all affairs with her family. She was obligated to live and experience life. This is the basic obligation of all living beings, and human beings in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/39 "2014-11-04T16:24:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > She was obligated to live and experience life. This is the basic obligation of all living beings, and human beings in particular. Cite? Seriously, that’s some strange views you got there. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/40 "2014-11-04T16:27:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Each human life is unique and valuable beyond measure. To destroy one is the greatest crime a person can commit. > > Civilized society is based on _not_ just letting people “do what the hell they want to”. again… your cite for this “greatest crime” stuff, please? My “do what the hell they want” was a flip reply. You’re a smart cat, \*\*Smapti \*\*and you know what i was trying to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=3)