# What? No Brittany Maynard thread? (terminal disease, doctor-assisted suicide) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765 "2014-10-19T05:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/81 "2014-11-04T18:21:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Those who loved her would not have been deprived of the time they could have had with her. Did you check with those who loved her to see if they feel as though they’ve been deprived? Do you think they care what your opinion is of her decision? Maybe you shouldn’t argue on their behalf unless you know that they feel the way you do. Its pretty insensitive to them. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/82 "2014-11-04T18:22:30Z")
And once again we see the hubris that claims “I understand your life better than you do, so I should make the decisions concerning your life.” > [@Smapti](#): > > If her body had life, then real life was within her reach. No … life was being taken from her a little at a time. It’s not for you or anybody else to say when it’s enough. > [@](#): > > She would have lived to experience it. To what end? So she could die experience horrendous pain? > [@](#): > > Those who loved her would not have been deprived of the time they could have had with her. According to what I’ve read, those who loved her agreed with her decision. Once again, that’s their decision to make not yours. And that time would not have been spent reliving joyous memories or planning their next Hawaiian vacation, but would be spent watching someone writhe in unendurable, unrelenting pain which at this point, no medication would take away. > [@](#): > > Those in similar situations could have been given a hero to look up to, rather than a reason to believe there’s an easy way out. If you think deciding to commit suicide is somehow “easy” then you are severely deluded, my friend. > [@](#): > > The data collected during her final days could have proven invaluable to researchers looking for a cure. I could be wrong and I’d be interested if you have a cite, but I sincerely doubt any of her doctors were begging her to stay alive just a little bit more so they could continue using her as a research monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/83 "2014-11-04T18:25:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Courage is sticking it out and fighting to the last breath, not immediately and permanently ceasing your existence out of fear and pain Both take courage. Taking your life requires courage; so does enduring continuing pain. And to use an extreme example, sometimes “immediately and permanently ceasing your existence out of fear” makes logical sense - spies have committed suicide in the face of imminent capture rather than face torture, giving up vital info, then being killed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/84 "2014-11-04T18:39:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And to use an extreme example, sometimes “immediately and permanently ceasing your existence out of fear” makes logical sense - spies have committed suicide in the face of imminent capture rather than face torture, giving up vital info, then being killed anyway. Cowardly selfish fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/85 "2014-11-04T18:46:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Suicide is always an act of cowardice. > [@Grey](#): > > I’m pretty sure you have no inkling to the extent of this woman’s courage. Indeed. There is a Death out there for each of us. If we are lucky, our own will be patient, but also quiet, and there will be little space for fear and pain. Brittany Maynard saw hers coming. Especially swift, and especially cruel. Hers sought to rob and hurt, before it slew. Rather than be helplessly overtaken, she turned to meet it, in a place and moment and manner of her choosing. But first she shared herself and her choice with the world. [In so doing, she struck a mighty blow for human rights and dignity.](https://time.com/3556280/brittany-maynard-death-with-dignity-options/) I am humbled before her. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/86 "2014-11-04T18:48:24Z")
I support her decision to end her life with dignity and on her own terms. And being an atheist, I don’t believe in hell, and if I did believe in one, I don’t believe she ended up in it. I choose to believe she escaped from hell here on earth. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/87 "2014-11-04T18:49:47Z")
Smapti, let’s test your views with a hypothetical. Let’s say there’s someone with locked in syndrome who experiences constant, excruciating pain. They can’t move, they only experience pain, and their life is nothing but constant suffering. ANd let’s say, hypothetically, that in order to keep this person alive, we need the spare resources of every single human being on the planet. All 7 billion people must work every day to their physical and mental capabilities - most people will work for 18 hours a day, and sleep for a few, only to return to work. Everyone eats nothing but the most basic sustenance, and no one has any luxuries, comforts, or recreational activities. All of these people must give up all those resources so that we can keep that miserable person alive. Would this be a worthwhile endeavor? If the value of being alive is infinite as you say, and trumps any suffering, then logically, it would be. If you admit that it’s not, then at some point you’ve decided that some amount of suffering trumps being alive. In which case you lose your absolutes - it becomes an argument about where to draw the line. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/88 "2014-11-04T18:50:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Give them freedom from pain for as long as possible while taking full advantage of the opportunity to learn from them so that we can progress towards a future where no one has to live with that diagnosis. So knock them out with pain killers while doctors poke, prod, slice, dice and take tissue samples. Yeah, that’s living life to the fullest. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/89 "2014-11-04T18:52:59Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Smapti, what is the longest that you’ve been in pain? What kind of pain was it? I’ve been in constant pain most of my life due to various tooth problems. It’s been so bad at times that I couldn’t sleep or drive or think about anything other than how painful it was. I have never contemplated suicide. > [@](#): > > What is the longest you’ve seen a loved one in pain? What kind of pain was it? My mother has suffered from and survived uterine cancer, hepatitis C, and PTSD. I would never encourage her to commit suicide. > [@](#): > > Have you been unable to handle the most private parts of caring for your own body? For how long? What about your family? Has anyone in your family been unable to go to the bathroom, wipe, or bathe their most private parts without help? For how long? I understand my grandfather went through that at the end of his life. He didn’t commit suicide and toughed it out to the age of 83. > [@](#): > > Have you seen and lived with anyone who’s lost all memory of who they are, who you are, and where you are? Have you explained eight times in an hour, day after day? Have you held their hand as they faced that fear and confusion again and again? My grandmother has Alzheimer’s. I would never encourage her to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/90 "2014-11-04T18:57:37Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > And once again we see the hubris that claims “I understand your life better than you do, so I should make the decisions concerning your life.” That’s the entire basis of civilization - making decisions concerning other people’s lives. > [@](#): > > No … life was being taken from her a little at a time. It’s not for you or anybody else to say when it’s enough. Correct. “Anybody else” includes the patient him/herself. > [@](#): > > To what end? So she could die experience horrendous pain? Correct. You must place a very low value on life if you think that pain is worth ending it over. > [@](#): > > According to what I’ve read, those who loved her agreed with her decision. Once again, that’s their decision to make not yours. I’m sure that’s what they _said._ > [@](#): > > And that time would not have been spent reliving joyous memories or planning their next Hawaiian vacation, but would be spent watching someone writhe in unendurable, unrelenting pain which at this point, no medication would take away. I’d rather have memories of a loved one in pain than have memories of them as a rotting piece of meat. > [@](#): > > If you think deciding to commit suicide is somehow “easy” then you are severely deluded, my friend. It’s very easy. All you have to do is flip a switch or press a button or pull a trigger and all your problems are gone. > [@](#): > > I could be wrong and I’d be interested if you have a cite, but I sincerely doubt any of her doctors were begging her to stay alive just a little bit more so they could continue using her as a research monkey. Begging? Perhaps not. Would the data derived from her life have helped nonetheless? Yes. And who knows? It’s entirely possible she could have gone into spontaneous remission and lived another 50 years. She robbed herself and the world of that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/91 "2014-11-04T18:59:58Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Rather than be helplessly overtaken, she turned to meet it, in a place and moment and manner of her choosing. But first she shared herself and her choice with the world. [In so doing, she struck a mighty blow for human rights and dignity.](https://time.com/3556280/brittany-maynard-death-with-dignity-options/) > > I am humbled before her. There is absolutely nothing dignified about killing yourself. The lesson she is teaching here is that if your life is tough, if you have problems, if you’re in pain or sick, all you have to do is kill yourself and your problems will all go away. How many lives are going to be thrown away senselessly because of her bad example? In the long run, there will be more blood on her hands than her own. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/92 "2014-11-04T19:00:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Correct. “Anybody else” includes the patient him/herself. Not if you have a clear understanding of the English language. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/93 "2014-11-04T19:01:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Both take courage. Taking your life requires courage. Taking your life requires the complete absolute opposite of courage, because it grants you instant reprieve from your obligations and the consequences of your actions. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/94 "2014-11-04T19:02:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Smapti, let’s test your views with a hypothetical. > > Let’s say there’s someone with locked in syndrome who experiences constant, excruciating pain. They can’t move, they only experience pain, and their life is nothing but constant suffering. > > ANd let’s say, hypothetically, that in order to keep this person alive, we need the spare resources of every single human being on the planet. All 7 billion people must work every day to their physical and mental capabilities - most people will work for 18 hours a day, and sleep for a few, only to return to work. Everyone eats nothing but the most basic sustenance, and no one has any luxuries, comforts, or recreational activities. All of these people must give up all those resources so that we can keep that miserable person alive. > > Would this be a worthwhile endeavor? Yes, provided that each one of those people has the guarantee that the same amount of effort will eventually be provided to preserve their own life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/95 "2014-11-04T19:05:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The lesson she is teaching here is that if your life is tough, if you have problems, if you’re in pain or sick… You left off “or dying of a painful disease with no hope of recovery” Why? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/96 "2014-11-04T19:07:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You left off “or dying of a painful disease with no hope of recovery” > > Why? Because it’s irrelevant. She’s setting an example that it’s OK to take the easy way out. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/97 "2014-11-04T19:08:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d rather have memories of a loved one in pain than have memories of them as a rotting piece of meat. Holy _fuck_, that’s cold. I’m sure your loved ones would be thrilled to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/98 "2014-11-04T19:08:44Z")
Call suicide what you will, but it is not cowardly. It takes guts. That doesn’t make it morally right. But it takes considerable daring. Most people fear death, and suicide takes that fear head-on. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/99 "2014-11-04T19:09:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Each human life is unique and valuable beyond measure. To destroy one is the greatest crime a person can commit. Says the guy who would refuse to save his own children from death if it meant any risk to his own life. Ms. Maynard has no reason to be troubled by this person calling her a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/100 "2014-11-04T19:11:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The lesson she is teaching here is that if your life is tough, if you have problems, if you’re in pain or sick, all you have to do is kill yourself and your problems will all go away. But you’re extrapolating something that no one is saying. No one is saying that suicide is a preferable option just because you have a tough life and want out. But _in this specific circumstance_, her quality of life pretty much didn’t exist and her chances of recovery were as close to nil as you can get. In that case, accepting death on your own terms rather than choosing a agonizingly painful death looks to me to be the more rational choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=6)