# What? No Brittany Maynard thread? (terminal disease, doctor-assisted suicide) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765 "2014-10-19T05:46:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/141 "2014-11-04T19:55:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > With no regard what so ever for what others had to go through to give you your second? I wouldn’t have to live with myself afterward, that’s for sure. That’s what the certainty of death brings - a release from responsibility for any action or obligation and the consequences thereof. And that’s why I believe we need to work towards a world where death is never certain. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/142 "2014-11-04T19:57:18Z")
I honestly do not understand this all-encompassing fear of death. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/143 "2014-11-04T20:00:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This isn’t the same thing, since in this case you’re trading life for life. If he answers yes to this question, it does show a craven disregard for other people, but if he answers yes, it could logically be consistent that obviously he’s choosing for more people to have more life. > > Which is why I created all my hypotheticals so that there was no net loss of life - everyone still lived just as long - only there would be extreme suffering. By his answer, he showed the craven disregard. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/144 "2014-11-04T20:00:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s why I believe we need to work towards a world where death is never certain. Well until we reach your sci fi utopia maybe we should let people decide their own levels of acceptable suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/145 "2014-11-04T20:00:37Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I honestly do not understand this all-encompassing fear of death. There is no afterlife. There’s no pearly gates and guys with wings wearing togas and strumming on harps all day. There’s no pit of fire. There’s no lurking around in abandoned houses and scaring kids who go in there on a dare. There’s not even eternal darkness and loneliness. One day, you just fall asleep and never wake up again. That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/146 "2014-11-04T20:01:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I wouldn’t have to live with myself afterward, that’s for sure. That’s what the certainty of death brings - a release from responsibility for any action or obligation and the consequences thereof. > > And that’s why I believe we need to work towards a world where death is never certain. The first part doesn’t answer my question, and the second has fuck-all to do with what has been discussed so far. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/147 "2014-11-04T20:01:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This is bordering on a hijack, but your hypothetical failed to guarantee an absolute lack of risk in the first place. It implied the risk was minimal at most – hence the extreme cowardice in your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/148 "2014-11-04T20:01:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well until we reach your sci fi utopia maybe we should let people decide their own levels of acceptable suffering. So anything goes, anyone can kill themselves any time they want for any reason whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/149 "2014-11-04T20:02:16Z")
What exactly is gained by extra suffering if the death is inevitable? Say you’re surrounded by a raging, 500-acre wide forest fire on all sides. Escape is impossible. Death is guaranteed. You have a gun in your hand. Why exactly would the world, and society, benefit from you roasting alive excruciatingly (but prolonging life for as long as possible) instead of just shooting yourself? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/150 "2014-11-04T20:02:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. Lol. You are terrified of one of the most fundamental aspects of life. Kind of cowardly, istm. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/151 "2014-11-04T20:03:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The first part doesn’t answer my question I believe it does. If as far as I’m concerned, I have a choice between the universe ending in one second or the universe ending in two seconds, what is my motivation to end it sooner? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/152 "2014-11-04T20:03:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So anything goes, anyone can kill themselves any time they want for any reason whatsoever? Sure. What the hell do I care? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/153 "2014-11-04T20:05:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > One day, you just fall asleep and never wake up again. > > That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. I’m sorry. I hope you find peace. Please recognize that not everyone shares your terrors. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/154 "2014-11-04T20:05:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > There is no afterlife. There’s no pearly gates and guys with wings wearing togas and strumming on harps all day. > > There’s no pit of fire. > > There’s no lurking around in abandoned houses and scaring kids who go in there on a dare. > > There’s not even eternal darkness and loneliness. > > One day, you just fall asleep and never wake up again. > > That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. By [your own definition](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17872878&postcount=113) – since your choice of what to do in these hypotheticals is surrendering to this fear-- this makes you a coward. Just as, in your view, Maynard “surrendered” to her fear of suffering, you are “surrendering” to your fear of death in these hypotheticals by choosing prolonged life over the improved quality/quantity of life to others. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/155 "2014-11-04T20:06:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That terrifies me more than _anything_ I can possibly conceive of and I can’t imagine how anyone else couldn’t find it as terrifying if they stopped to think about it, and I can’t imagine a state of existence to which that would be preferable. Why would you be terrified of it? You’re not there anymore. It makes no sense to claim fear of something you’re not around for, unless, I guess, you’re saying that death happening can have severe negative effects on your mental psyche before it even happens, but you can’t be saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/156 "2014-11-04T20:07:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I believe it does. If as far as I’m concerned, I have a choice between the universe ending in one second or the universe ending in two seconds, what is my motivation to end it sooner? Your legal obligation not to kill anyone? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/157 "2014-11-04T20:08:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And she wasted it all. > > Noone who can climb Kilimanjaro is so sick that they need to die. She was a coward. > > If she understood life she’d still be living it. > [@Smapti](#): > > I understand it better than she did. “I have cancer, so I’m going to climb mountains and tour the world and then kill myself because I don’t want to be sick” is the very epitome of “first world problems”. Yes, complete ignorance of the facts is always a terrific basis for pontificating moral judgments. That explains why it’s diametrically at odds with the views of medical ethicists and the medical profession who actually understand the issues. Even the AMA, despite its notorious conservatism, has established policies where in situations of conflict between a doctor’s obligation to preserve life and a patient’s wishes, a patient’s wishes always take priority. In my experience, responsible doctors will speak to elderly patients and others who are admitted to hospital with serious diseases about DNR declarations if appropriate in their circumstances, just so they’re aware of what the alternatives are if things turn bad. I’ve had long conversations with acute-care surgeons and palliative care specialists about those kinds of issues. It’s fortunate for most of us that we are blissfully unaware of the kinds of horrors that some diseases can wreak, often when the patient has deteriorated to the point of being completely uncommunicative and utterly helpless. Fortunately, in the majority of cases, a simple DNR will let nature take its course, and let the person die without medical interference, often at home surrounded by family. But some diseases are far more sinister. With any luck most of us may never need to find out that nature can indeed be merciless beyond measure. You really and truly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and frankly the pontification about what she “should have done” is medically and factually outrageous and an insult to this wonderful and courageous person who lived a spirited life and now, even in death, has helped many to become better informed about the issues of compassionate medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/158 "2014-11-04T20:08:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I believe it does. If as far as I’m concerned, I have a choice between the universe ending in one second or the universe ending in two seconds, what is my motivation to end it sooner? Then you are in no position to talk about her selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/159 "2014-11-04T20:09:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By [your own definition](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17872878&postcount=113) – since your choice of what to do in these hypotheticals is surrendering to this fear-- this makes you a coward. > > Just as, in your view, Maynard “surrendered” to her fear of suffering, you are “surrendering” to your fear of death by choosing prolonged life over the improved quality/quantity of life to others. It perhaps makes me a _hypothetical_ coward. Since the scenario described has pretty much a 0% chance of happening, it is unlikely that it will result in me engaging in actual cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765/160 "2014-11-04T20:09:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 😕 > > Where does that come from? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17795751&postcount=202](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17795751&postcount=202) [Quote=smapti] I know of no law that obligates a parent to commit suicide by attempting to save the life of a child when they have no confidence that they are able to do so safely. [/quote] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-brittany-maynard-thread-terminal-disease-doctor-assisted-suicide/701765.md?page=9)