# What, no pitting of the Democratic party today? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670 "2009-12-10T01:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/21 "2009-12-10T07:37:49Z")
I’m far more angry at my congresswoman, Betsy Markey, for co-sponsoring an amendment to gut the bill creating a Consumer Financial Protection Agency, which I beleive is sorely needed. I do wonder what happened to the co-op insurance idea, as I would be happy to buy into something that works like my credit union, where the insured would own the insurance company. If you could get a large enough group to have some negotiating clout this would be ideal IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/22 "2009-12-10T07:49:37Z")
Last week my wife (who’s on SSD) got a card listing a bunch of things Medicare will no longer cover. I’m assuming that it’s because Medicare is running low on money. Won’t expanding the number of people on it cause it to lose even more money? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/23 "2009-12-10T07:50:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I still want single payer. I won’t consider them finished with the job until we get it. Isn’t that what most other countries with universal health care have? Great idea, and it works well in practice too. The problem is, Obama is a democrat. Republicans, weirdo fundies, O’Reilly, Beck, Tea party maniacs, all want to discredit Obama first and foremost, above and beyond the welfare of the nation. Of course this notion is ridiculous, but people also say that Obama hates America, is trying to ruin our economy, is beholden to other nations, and is driving the US into the ground. Most of these people thought it would be great to have W in office for 8 years too. There’s a two party system in place here, and it’s not going to change anytime soon, that is really, really fucking sad too. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/24 "2009-12-10T07:57:25Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Last week my wife (who’s on SSD) got a card listing a bunch of things Medicare will no longer cover. I’m assuming that it’s because Medicare is running low on money. Won’t expanding the number of people on it cause it to lose even more money? Is anyone suggesting that no more money would be allocated towards payment funds if millions more were added to Medicare? It’s understood that Medicare is a bit overwhelmed, but it’s a system that has infrastructure in place already. Adding people, by the boatload, may be a stress, but they’ll still be covered whereas they might not be otherwise. An overloaded health care system would _have_ to have more funds allocated to it, otherwise it would not make sense mathematically, let alone politically. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/25 "2009-12-10T08:04:46Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Is anyone suggesting that no more money would be allocated towards payment funds if millions more were added to Medicare? It’s understood that Medicare is a bit overwhelmed, but it’s a system that has infrastructure in place already. Adding people, by the boatload, may be a stress, but they’ll still be covered whereas they might not be otherwise. An overloaded health care system would _have_ to have more funds allocated to it, otherwise it would not make sense mathematically, let alone politically. So, an increase in social security taxes then? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/26 "2009-12-10T08:22:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You know, some of those crazy-ass radicals claim that corporate and financial interests have an inordinate degree of power. Just sayin’, is all. Oh, definitely. Of course this raises the question of how to dislodge them. Short of a long-term campaign to deduce lobbying influence on government I don’t see what can be done about it short of tar-and-feathering lobbyists. And I’m speaking as someone who’s career trajectory will probably end in a consultancy position at a defense contractor or a think tank (the joys of getting a Ph.D in naval history). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/27 "2009-12-10T08:34:36Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So, an increase in social security taxes then? No. The under 65 people added onto Medicare will just buy in, as if they were buying regular insurance, and pay a monthly premium. It shouldn’t have any effect on Medicare’s bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/28 "2009-12-10T08:36:54Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > No. The under 65 people added onto Medicare will just buy in, as if they were buying regular insurance, and pay a monthly premium. It shouldn’t have any effect on Medicare’s bottom line. Oh, I see. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/29 "2009-12-10T22:08:20Z")
> [@gravitycrash](#): > > What, so you’re mad that the Democrats aren’t fucking people like me harder? Thanks. Thanks a lot. > > Works for a small business who’s co pay and deductible for health care has gone up the last two years and will go up higher now. Check > > Has a so called “Cadillac plan” that will get the shit taxed out of. Check > > Has worked hard for being solidly in the middle class but gets taxed at the same rate as someone who makes twice as much as me. Check > > Makes “too much” to get anything at all beneficial out of this. Check > > I’m sure to think of more ways that I’m getting fucked with no lube but you go on and be mad at the Democrats for not getting more out of my ass. Fuck. > > And here’s a God damned roll eyes for liberal pieces of shit who think I’m not paying my fucking fair share. :rolleyes: It is sad you can not identify who is fucking you. The insurance companies just hike the costs over and over while cutting coverage. That has been chafing your heinnie over and over. You must rub a pain killer on it. The overall cost of medical coverage drops with UHC. The public option will also start a little competition for the insurance thieves. The dems are trying to pass laws that will help you. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/30 "2009-12-10T22:38:52Z")
Opening up Medicare to more people is a victory for those who want UHC. What they SHOULD do is combine Medicare, Medicaid and TriCare and open them to anyone to buy in, or you can get it paid for (as a vet or someone who is poor or someone 65 and over). Of course, a lot of docs won’t take the low payments - but it would be a start. I don’t want to lose private insurance - I like competition. But there should be a policy of last resort with access provided by the Feds. I also want all med expenses to be a tax deduction regardless of income - get us out of this employer focused system. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/31 "2009-12-11T07:59:05Z")
I for one wish i could buy into Medicare because it would be better than the NOTHING i have now but i am 20 years too young for THAT. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/32 "2009-12-11T13:22:04Z")
Does anyone have a link for how much the new Senate compromise bill will cost? I understand that, even if it passes the Senate it still must be reconciled with the House so the numbers are in flux at this point. At one point we were looking at adding almost $1Trillion to the debt; is that still in play? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/33 "2009-12-11T13:27:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Does anyone have a link for how much the new Senate compromise bill will cost? It is being scored by the Congressional Budget Office as we speak, so we should know in a week or so. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/34 "2009-12-11T14:03:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is being scored by the Congressional Budget Office as we speak, so we should know in a week or so. rgr that, tx ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/35 "2009-12-11T14:27:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Opening up Medicare to more people is a victory for those who want UHC. What they SHOULD do is combine Medicare, Medicaid and TriCare and open them to anyone to buy in, or you can get it paid for (as a vet or someone who is poor or someone 65 and over). > > Of course, a lot of docs won’t take the low payments - but it would be a start. > > I don’t want to lose private insurance - I like competition. But there should be a policy of last resort with access provided by the Feds. > > I also want all med expenses to be a tax deduction regardless of income - get us out of this employer focused system. Offering Tricare to non-military opens up a can of worms that isn’t necessary if Medicare is opened up as an option, mainly because Tricare offers the same benefits as Medicare. It’s also structured for military, who need flexibility due to frequent moves and deployments. I just can’t see the benefit to offering Tricare as an option. In any event, veterans are eligible for care through the VA, or if they’re retired, they’re eligible for Tricare for Life, so they’re taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/36 "2009-12-11T14:51:05Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > At one point we were looking at adding almost $1Trillion to the debt; is that still in play? Every plan that’s been offered has been debt neutral or deficit reducing. They reduce the deficit through revenue and spending cuts in existing programs more then they cost. The latest Senate plan saved about 100 billion over ten years, I suspect this latest version will be similar. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/37 "2009-12-11T16:51:22Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > It shouldn’t have any effect on Medicare’s bottom line. Probably true - Medicare is running at a deficit now, and is scheduled to go bankrupt altogether in six or seven years. Buy at six cents, sell at four cents, make up the difference on volume. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/38 "2009-12-11T17:26:05Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > tar-and-feathering lobbyists…(the joys of getting a Ph.D in naval history). Then shouldn’t your reference be to keelhauling, or flogging, or maybe buggering? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/39 "2009-12-11T18:02:44Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I worked for a company that manages prescription benefits, mail and local meds supplies etc. In 2007 I think it was, they were making 33 BILLION dollars a year. That’s 1/6th of the expected TARP surplus that people are fighting over, and the amount they make now is surely higher. There is no company in that line of business making anything close to that amount of money. In 2008, [only one company in the world made more profits than that](http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2009/performers/companies/profits/). Ignorance like yours is one thing that perpetuates unrealistic expectations and makes finding realistic and practical solutions to the world’s problems harder for the saner people. > [@gravitycrash](#): > > What, so you’re mad that the Democrats aren’t fucking people like me harder? Thanks. Thanks a lot. That’s actually a big part of the core problem in liberal promises. They pretend that they want to soak the “rich” people, but in reality there simply aren’t enough of the really rich people. So they end up sticking it to the middle class, who are poorer but a whole lot more numerous. I always love it when you get ultra-rich liberals sanctimoniously using themselves as examples. I remember in particular Jay Rockefeller saying “people like me …” shouldn’t get this or that or should pay more taxes or whatever. And I was thinking, yeah, now you’re talking about people like you, but once you get down to business it starts to be people like me. Of course, many people don’t realize this and think - like dnooman above, apparently - that there is this vast untapped wealth ready to be taxed so that everyone else shouldn’t be. But it’s not really there and to the extent that it is, it isn’t what’s going to be taxed. You are. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670/40 "2009-12-11T18:05:58Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Eh, I think the Medicare buy-in alternative is actually better then any Public Option compromise that was likely to show up. I’d rather a Medicare buy-in then a Public Option not linked to Medicare rates, which until today looked like what we were going to get. I take it you’re not part of the cohort which is the most under-insured population in the nation, and who is completely and totally left out of the Medicare buy-in. That is people in their 20s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-pitting-of-the-democratic-party-today/520670.md?page=3)