# What? No thread on O'Reilly's latest bullshit? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540 "2004-06-22T00:50:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/41 "2004-06-22T13:46:52Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Don’t hold your breath. > > But let me say this…Do you think I like having to bash the Bush administration? Do you think it pleases me? Well, It doesn’t my friend. If only Bushco had kept sight of what America is. We were the good guys you know. There was a time when the world looked up to America but not anymore. Don’t see too many softballs like this one served up on the SDMB. There goes your no-hitter, Reeder. And remind me, just when was it that “the world” looked up to the USA? As far as I can tell from my history, there never has been such a time. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/42 "2004-06-22T13:54:38Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > And remind me, just when was it that “the world” looked up to the USA? As far as I can tell from my history, there never has been such a time. Perhaps you’ve heard of a little thing called the 1790s? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/43 "2004-06-22T13:57:25Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Well, I guess not really innocent. After all, they are guilyy of being Iraqi. When did you become such a drama queen? I would expect crap like this from certain other posters, but when did you drink the Kool Aid? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/44 "2004-06-22T14:17:31Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > When did you become such a drama queen? I would expect crap like this from certain other posters, but when did you drink the Kool Aid? I wasn’t referring to your post as much as commenting on O’Reilly’s indiscriminate bloodlust. And I’m not being a drama queen–save that for folks who use lots of bolding and exclamation marks and hysterical overdramatization. No, I’m not a Kool-Aid drinker, thanks. I’m just an American citizen who is royally pissed at being lied to. I supported the war because I believed the Administration’s claims that Iraq was helping Al Qaeda and that we had a plan for quick entry, establishing a government, and getting out. Moreover, I believed that the government had learned the lessons of the past and embraced the Powell Doctrine, which calls for maximum use of resources in battle. Instead, it turned out the administration flat out lied, that there no links to Al Qaeda, that Bush had planned this war from his first days in office and used 9/11 as a fortunate pretext, and that the occupation authority in Iraq was cluelessly incompetent. I am angry that the trust I put in our leadership has been abused so shabbily. I am angry that the adminstration lied about the war and its causes, and that more than 1,000 Americans and untold numbers of Iraqis have been killed for that lie. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/45 "2004-06-22T14:26:11Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > What was missing from the beginning was proper _marketing_ to the Iraqi people. Start selling them early on the concept of regime change. > > Prior to invasion, use leaflet drops over big and small cities aimed at telling the people that we’re coming with the intent of overthrowing Saddam and bringing a representative government to Iraq. STRESS that the choice is theirs once Saddam is gone. > > During the invasion broadcast (a la Radio Free Europe) how much we regret any loss of life but keep selling that the payoff is worth the cost. > > During the occupation use daily broadcasts on news shows to have interviews with senior military and political figures about what is happening and what’s being done to promote the welfare of the Iraqi people. Keep trotting out tame IGC members to sing the praises of the new Iraq. And make certain you leave time for dissenting opinions so people don’t view the media as a shill. We did all that. Apart from the rather obvious point that people who’ve just had their homes flattened and their cousins killed by the invading forces don’t really tend to listen to assurances that we’re doing such things in the best interests of the Iraqi people, here’s how it was received by each of the major ethnic/religious groups in Iraq: Shiites: Regime change? Democracy? All _right_! Now it’s our turn on top! Sunnis: Regime change? Democracy? Holy _shit_, are we ever fucked. Kurds: Hey, any of you guys got that declaration of independence thing finalized? And how are we doing on ammo? We’re gonna need it. The point here is that essentially nobody in Iraq has the slightest interest in a Western-style democracy with human rights and all that bollocks. The foundation for it simply isn’t there, and it cannot be imposed through military occupation and foreign administration. The U.S. can help foster those things, in Iraq and elsewhere, but it cannot impose them from the outside on people who don’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/46 "2004-06-22T14:34:36Z")
Note where I said to stress ‘the choice is yours’. I agree that democracy can’t be imposed on a population. It won’t take root. But making plain the ‘we’re knocking him over so you guys can do something different’ is WAY different than ‘we’re bringing you western-style democracy’ that was pitched. Marketing, man. It’s all about knowing your audience and what they’re prepared to buy. And the administration dropped the ball here with the whole ‘let’s wait for the liberation parades’ routine. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/47 "2004-06-22T14:40:27Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > It’s all about knowing your audience and what they’re prepared to buy. True. But another thing you have to know is who your audience is willing to buy from, and for the Iraqi people (Kurds again perhaps excepted), that damn sure isn’t the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/48 "2004-06-22T14:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps you’ve heard of a little thing called the 1790s? Oh yeah, I’m sure the Brits just loved us then. I rather doubt they were too pleased with having to sign John Jay’s Treaty in 1794 forcing them to relinquish the remainder of their control over the Old North West territories. Plus I doubt they were over that little thing called the American Revolution quite so quickly. I’m sure we were great friends with the French after that little XYZ affair in 1797. Hell, we almost went to war with the French and would have except that John Adams refused to ask Congress for a formal declaration—ever hear of a thing called the “Quasi-war?”. How 'bout the Alien & Sedition Acts of 1798? That was bound to piss off more than a few Irish and French. Not to mention that we were actively at war with the Indians in this period. Looked up to by “the world?” I think not. In the 1790s, or any other era. > [@Brutus](#): > > . . . when did you drink the Kool Aid? I’ve been seeing this phrase, or variations on it, rather frequently of late on the SDMB. And goddamn, is it offensive. What the hell causes people to be so fucking intolerant of the views of others that they think it’s ok, no matter how hyperbolic, to even allude to the wish that their opponents would off themselves? It’s decidely disgusting, wholly reprehensible, and just plain not nice. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/49 "2004-06-22T15:00:02Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Looked up to by “the world?” I think not. In the 1790s, or any other era. Umm… 1490s? > [@](#): > > I’ve been seeing this phrase, or variations on it, rather frequently of late on the SDMB. And goddamn, is it offensive. What the hell causes people to be so fucking intolerant of the views of others that they think it’s ok, no matter how hyperbolic, to even allude to the wish that their opponents would off themselves? It’s decidely disgusting, wholly reprehensible, and just plain not nice. I’m not sure what the phrase means, but I think it is more of a reference to the Grateful Dead rather than the actual dead. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/50 "2004-06-22T15:10:51Z")
It’s a reference to the Jim Jones mass suicide. It’s much more an indication that the person who says it believes the other person is brainwashed beyond reason. Not really about indicating someone wants to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/51 "2004-06-22T15:13:44Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > I’ve been seeing this phrase, or variations on it, rather frequently of late on the SDMB. And goddamn, is it offensive. What the hell causes people to be so fucking intolerant of the views of others that they think it’s ok, no matter how hyperbolic, to even allude to the wish that their opponents would off themselves? It’s decidely disgusting, wholly reprehensible, and just plain not nice. In **Brutus** ’s defense, I don’t believe he was inviting me to participate in a Jonestown=style mass suicide; if he had, he would have said, “Why don’t you drink some Kool-Aid?” It seems to me that his intent was more to ask when was I absorbed by the Collective and become part of the anti-Bush hivemind, or maybe been transformed into some “Invasion of the Lefties” pod person. Still offensive, but not _that_ bad. \ ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/52 "2004-06-22T15:23:10Z")
Well, I see others have weighed in while I was composing a response on this but what the hey: > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what the phrase means, but I think it is more of a reference to the Grateful Dead rather than the actual dead. Actually, what I thought 'ol **Brutus** may be referring to is the [mass suicide of the followers of Jim Jones](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/) at Jonestown, Guyana in 1978. And yeah, I’d have to say that equating persons who happen to disagree with one’s political leanings as nutcase cultists is pretty offensive, although nothing new from that particular source. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/53 "2004-06-22T16:01:49Z")
Ah. Color me enlightened. But the Grateful Dead explanation works just as well, IMHO. Same as saying “What drugs are you on, and where can I get some?” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/54 "2004-06-22T16:02:35Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > True. But another thing you have to know is who your audience is willing to buy from, and for the Iraqi people (Kurds again perhaps excepted), that damn sure isn’t the U.S. And if that’s the case then perhaps the entire adventure was a mistake and shouldn’t have been attempted. At least not that way. But the administration clearly believed their own hype about how democract could be sold in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/55 "2004-06-22T16:32:54Z")
And just on a persoanlnot because i want to bitch w/o opening a fresh thread. I work in the building which houses the national Bush/Cheney campaign headquarters in Arlington, VA. Today, I got in the elevator to go to lunch, and when the door opened on the ground floor, a Secret Service (SS) goon pushed me back and said, “You have to wait.” I said, "Hey, I have a limited lunch time. " He replied, “So do many people, sir.” So I had to stay in the elevator, go back up, then wait until it was clear. Apparently Cheney was visiting the building, which explained why my co-workers said they saw dogs sniffing for explosives in the building and why so many SS men were on the premises. So since when did I wake up in Qing dynasty China, where guards forbade the commonalty to gaze on the emperor (or in this case, vice-emperor) as he passed? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/56 "2004-06-22T16:43:28Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > So since when did I wake up in Qing dynasty China, where guards forbade the commonalty to gaze on the emperor (or in this case, vice-emperor) as he passed? As opposed to when my girlfriend bumped into Bill Clinton. No, I mean literally. She turned a corner and _boom_, smacked right into him. Immediately she was surrounded by SS people and made to feel like a potentail assassin. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/57 "2004-06-22T17:19:56Z")
To be fair, I think those SS guys tend to be pricks no matter who the President is. It’s not like those under protection are blocking out the security schemes for everywhere they go and someone actually making physical contact with “the body” is always going to freak them out. Having said that, I think this administration has gone further than previous ones in the amount of space they try to clear for any kind of transport or appearance and the “free speech zones” for protestors are way out of line and have zero to do with security. Security is one thing, but trying to make sure that the president is not exposed to dissent is not something the SS is supposed to be used for. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/58 "2004-06-22T18:08:30Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > And if that’s the case then perhaps the entire adventure was a mistake and shouldn’t have been attempted. Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/59 "2004-06-22T18:20:57Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > But let me say this…Do you think I like having to bash the Bush administration? Do you think it pleases me? . Another vote for “YES”. I think you get off on it. I think you scour the news sources for something to use. Fortunately for you, it’s easy to find. But I really do think you enjoy it greatly. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540/60 "2004-06-22T19:32:25Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > So when our dear departed comrade **December** made such remarks, and the lot of you shat your pants and called him all sorts of nasty names, it was A-OK. To even suggest that terrorists, who thanked the antiwar protesters, were being morally bolstered by said protesters, by golly, that’s just unspeakable! The difference, m’boy, is that when **december** did it, he was being accusatory (“How DARE you help our enemies?!”). Whereas when **elucidator** did it, he was merely mocking Bill O’Reilly for being a hypocritical asshat (“Ah-HAH!”). Go read **elucidator’s** message again, and this time, try _paying attention_ for a change. > [@Brutus](#): > > You really do need to teach me that trick. What, being a hypocritical asshat? Just keep watching O’Reilly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-no-thread-on-oreillys-latest-bullshit/251540.md?page=4)