# What North American plants and animals are invasive species elsewhere? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007 "2018-04-08T00:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/21 "2018-04-08T11:53:55Z")
Whitetail deer is a southern species in Finland, and even there it has problems dealing with the six-month snow. As a result, whitetail deer are a culture-loving bunch. They utilize much field and garden vegetation, and hide in dense woodland spots right beside the food; extensive wintertime feeding by hunters also occurs. Moose, forest / fjell reindeer and roe deer are the native species in the deer family here, and their habitats and diets don’t overlap much with the whitetail. Even where there’s overlap, I’m not aware of any “pushing out” by the whitetails. Moose is by far the most numerous species and the most important game animal here. They like to munch crops as much as anyone, but manage just fine through the winters with no human influence, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/22 "2018-04-08T12:32:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes. By definition, invasive species are detrimental. > > Crops are not invasive unless they spread on their own without human assistance. Tomatoes and potatoes are not invasive. Well apparently, as the article I had cited went into, scientists in the field do not all agree with you that “detrimental” is “by definition” what an invasive species is. From that article, for those who couldn’t be arsed to click it. > [@](#): > > … a growing number of scientists are challenging this view, arguing that not all invasive species are destructive; some, they contend, are even beneficial. The assumption that what hails from elsewhere is inherently bad, these researchers say, rests more on xenophobia than on science. … From the scientific perspective “detrimental” is a very _subjective_ term. The article (and “fair use” I think prevents me from quoting any more extensively from it, so those interested will need to actually click) expounds on examples in which judging if the changes immigrant species have caused are “detrimental” or “beneficial” is unclear, and ones in which a species that has clearly replaced one native species has also protected others. [Non-native (invasive) bees](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5198217/) are a particularly very interesting case in point with both negative and positive impacts historically, presently, and likely in the future, especially when economic impacts are considered. As the article concludes: > [@Positive and Negative Impacts of Non-Native Bee Species around the World](#): > > … Invasive non-native bees present a complex topic because their negative impacts may be inextricably tied to the pollination services they provide to humans and the potential positive impacts they have in their role as pollinators. Whether or not they can have a dramatic effect on native communities and ecosystems or whether anthropogenic impacts such as habitat degradation are driving changes in community structure is unknown and probably understudied [85,144]. However, concerns about non-native bees exist, especially when their ranges expand rapidly, and for the majority of introduced bee species little or nothing is known. Thus, their role in novel ecosystems should be addressed, weighing both positive and negative influences they have on native species. As for the crops aspect, I get the point you make, and yet I’ll be pedantic enough to note that a species niche existing only by virtue of human influence is still a niche. Raising crops changes the ecology from what it otherwise would be very dramatically. Staying on thread subjects, how do you cinsider the peanut in Africa? Once upon the time there was a native Bambara Groundnut (Vigna subterranea) grown as a crop in Africa. Peanuts from South America were introduced and [took the place](http://www.congocookbook.com/recipe_indexes/peanuts_in_africa.html) that groundnut from that niche. Those groundnuts still exist there but not in the same numbers. **Toxylon** the beaver is an interesting case. The Eurasian beaver was hunted to near extinction. Since then ecologies have changed and now reintroduction of it, either by intent or by escape, is viewed by some as potentially harmful. Wiki’s discussion is not bad. > [@](#): > > The first sustained and significant population of wild-living beavers in the United Kingdom became established on the river Tay catchment in Scotland as early as 2001, and has spread widely in the catchment, numbering from 20 to 100 individuals.[65] Because these are likely escapees from any of several nearby sites with captive beavers, or were illegally released, they were targeted for removal by Scottish Natural Heritage in late 2010.[66] Proponents of the beavers argue that no reason exists to believe that they are of “wrong” genetic stock.[65] One of the wild Tayside beavers was trapped by Scottish Natural Heritage on the River Ericht in Blairgowrie, Perthshire, in early December 2010, and was held in captivity in the Edinburgh Zoo. In March 2012 the Scottish Government reversed the decision to remove beavers from the Tay, pending the outcome of studies into the suitability of re-introduction.[67] > > In 2005, the Scottish government turned down a licence application for unfenced reintroduction. Can you point me to information about the North American Beaver in Europe? I can’t find it on my own. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/23 "2018-04-08T14:02:50Z")
Depending on whether you consider Newfoundland to be part of North America or not (they sure as hell don’t :D), [moose](http://www.seethesites.ca/designations/introduction-of-moose-to-the-island-of-newfoundland.aspx) would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/24 "2018-04-08T15:58:57Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well apparently, as the article I had cited went into, scientists in the field do not all agree with you that “detrimental” is “by definition” what an invasive species is. I’m a conservation biologist, and am familiar with the term. You asked if a “having a negative impact is required for a species to be considered invasive.” The answer to that question is “yes,” by definition. The article you cited does not change the definition itself, it merely discusses which species should be considered invasive. The dispute you’re noting is whether all non-native species should be considered invasive. Not all non-native species are harmful, and some have both beneficial and negative effects. Likewise, some native species have increased and become problems. So the situation is complicated. > [@](#): > > As for the crops aspect, I get the point you make, and yet I’ll be pedantic enough to note that a species niche existing only by virtue of human influence is still a niche. Raising crops changes the ecology from what it otherwise would be very dramatically. Sure, but to be considered invasive still requires a domesticated species to be spreading on its own. Feral goats and pigs are invasive in many places. Again, you are seeking to redefine the term. > [@](#): > > Staying on thread subjects, how do you cinsider the peanut in Africa? Once upon the time there was a native Bambara Groundnut (Vigna subterranea) grown as a crop in Africa. Peanuts from South America were introduced and [took the place](http://www.congocookbook.com/recipe_indexes/peanuts_in_africa.html) that groundnut from that niche. Those groundnuts still exist there but not in the same numbers. That doesn’t say that the peanut has replaced the groundnut in the wild, only in cultivation. The peanut would not be considered invasive unless that was the case. You can’t consider hybrid strains of corn to be invasive just because farmers prefer to plant them instead of older varieties. ---
**Author:** ![Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hook)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/25 "2018-04-08T16:30:03Z")
Arguably the **Cane Toad** [Cane toads in Australia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia) in Australia. Originally meant to control the Cane Beetle in the sugar industry, it totally failed in that and became a menace to indigenous species and pets due to their poison. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/26 "2018-04-08T16:41:14Z")
> [@Hook](#): > > Arguably the **Cane Toad** [Cane toads in Australia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia) in Australia. Originally meant to control the Cane Beetle in the sugar industry, it totally failed in that and became a menace to indigenous species and pets due to their poison. No arguably about it. The Cane/Giant/Marine Toad is detrimental pretty much everywhere it’s been introduced. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/27 "2018-04-08T16:44:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > [American grey squirrels have completely taken over from native red squirrels in England and mostly taken over in other parts of the UK.](https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/blog/2016/09/red-squirrel-facts/) As someone who lives in one of the parts of England in which red squirrels still survive, can I just point out that that’s neither true, nor what the website you’ve linked to says. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/28 "2018-04-08T17:35:13Z")
_Cangrejo americano_ (procambarus clarkii), a type of crayfish which depending on which version of wiki you believe is from northern Mexico and the south and southeastern US (English), or directly from the SE US (Spanish) is classified as a pest in Spain. Fishing them is not only allowed but encouraged in all locations and at all times. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/29 "2018-04-08T19:06:42Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > As someone who lives in one of the parts of England in which red squirrels still survive, can I just point out that that’s neither true, nor what the website you’ve linked to says. Yes, I should have said almost completely. There are a whole 15,000 squirrels left in England so I guess we don’t need to worry about them at all. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/30 "2018-04-08T22:37:29Z")
Both largemouth and smallmouth bass have been introduced into Lake Atitlan in Guatemala, with the idea of promoting sport fishing and tourism there. These voracious predators have decimated native fish populations. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/31 "2018-04-08T23:52:39Z")
Canada geese are considered an invasive species in several counties in Sweden, much hated by farmers. Oddly, they don’t seem to push out the native greylag goose, which rather seems to thrive in its company. You almost never saw a greylag goose here some forty years ago, when Canada geese were newcomers; but today you will nearly always find some, albeit a minority, in a flock of Canada geese. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/32 "2018-04-09T00:03:53Z")
CIA plants and US army? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/33 "2018-04-09T01:55:36Z")
Most introduced birds in Hawaii are old-world species, but those from North America include the Mockingbird, Cardinal, House Finch, California Quail and Mourning Dove. ---
**Author:** ![ElderSign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eldersign/32/8263_2.png) [@ElderSign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElderSign)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/34 "2018-04-09T13:54:03Z")
We are all invaders: planet Earth is the story of invasive species. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/35 "2018-05-12T02:00:04Z")
[Invasive Crayfish in Berlin.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-crayfish/berlin-responds-to-crayfish-plague-if-you-cant-beat-them-eat-them-idUSKBN1I81Q2) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/36 "2018-05-12T02:31:37Z")
Coypu. They reproduce like crazy, have little to no natural predators and do huge damage to river banks. They’re legally shoot-on-sight all year long, in fact the EU has mandated they be destroyed whenever possible. I believe Wels Catfish are also on the list - at least they were, for a while, 95% of the fish that bit in a 20 miles radius around my old folks’ place. And a giant pain to unhook, half the time they swallow the hook all the way to their arseholes. The fuckers aren’t even barely edible, either (No. No. I don’t care, Louisiana folks. Catfish are nasty, period. You only think they’re OK because they provide token texture in the sea of hot sauce.) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/37 "2018-05-12T13:15:16Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > [Invasive Crayfish in Berlin.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-crayfish/berlin-responds-to-crayfish-plague-if-you-cant-beat-them-eat-them-idUSKBN1I81Q2) That is kind of weird. The story makes the good suggestion of eating the crayfish. They are tasty, send the Germans instructions for Cajun crayfish boil and problem solved, or is it? I was reminded of an article that I read a while back [An Unlikely Way to Save a Species: Serve It for Dinner](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/dining/30come.html). I know that this has been recommended in other, similar, situations. But what happens when people really like the tasty, invasive species? Doesn’t that encourage ranchers or fishermen or whoever to maintain the species if there is a market for it? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/38 "2018-05-12T16:03:59Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > That is kind of weird. The story makes the good suggestion of eating the crayfish. They are tasty, send the Germans instructions for Cajun crayfish boil and problem solved, or is it? I was reminded of an article that I read a while back [An Unlikely Way to Save a Species: Serve It for Dinner](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/dining/30come.html). I know that this has been recommended in other, similar, situations. But what happens when people really like the tasty, invasive species? Doesn’t that encourage ranchers or fishermen or whoever to maintain the species if there is a market for it? In some cases, people have intentionally introduced invasive species in order to build a huntable population. Or they are originally intended to be a fenced population but some escape. Such is the case with wild pig or in Texas several exotics. Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/39 "2018-05-12T16:41:57Z")
In the UK, red eared terrapins: [Terrapins | Invasive species | Canal & River Trust](https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/canal-and-river-wildlife/the-rogues-gallery/terrapins) And tangentially, the turkey. OK, so they’re not running wild over the countryside, but they are a worryingly pervasive alternative to food that tastes of something. j ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007/40 "2018-05-12T16:59:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > … > > I believe Wels Catfish are also on the list - at least they were, for a while, 95% of the fish that bit in a 20 miles radius around my old folks’ place. And a giant pain to unhook, half the time they swallow the hook all the way to their arseholes. The fuckers aren’t even barely edible, either (No. No. I don’t care, Louisiana folks. Catfish are nasty, period. You only think they’re OK because they provide token texture in the sea of hot sauce.) The Wels catfish is native to central and eastern Europe, although introduced in western Europe. So, it may be invasive where you are, but didn’t invade from North America. And I beg to differ - catfish is good - at least the much smaller Channel catfish found in the US. … Oh, and the coypu is invasive in North America, too, and a big problem. They originally came from South America. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-north-american-plants-and-animals-are-invasive-species-elsewhere/812007.md?page=3)