# What number is highest before using a form of "ten and \_\_\_\_\_"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014 "2024-01-12T19:05:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/1 "2024-01-12T19:05:07Z")
In English, we get up to 12 before we say “thirteen”, which is an obvious reference to ten. What number, presumably in a foreign language, is the highest “distinct” number that doesn’t reference another number. I’m not talking about “hundred”, “thousand” etc because they’re higher than 13, which used the “ten and \_\_\_” form. IE. If 13 were actually pronounced “blerg”, 14 was “snork”, and 15 was “fifteen” then snork would be the highest. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/2 "2024-01-12T19:11:47Z")
French goes up to 16 (sieze) before using (dix-sept/10-7) for 17. Things get funky at 70 and up, but that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/3 "2024-01-12T19:20:14Z")
Spanish uses distinct words up through 15, while 16 is “ten and six”. So not as high as French but higher than English. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/4 "2024-01-12T19:20:20Z")
There’s the Shepherd’s Count, yan, tan, etc. Many localized variants exist, but most of them get up to twenty (“score”) before they start in on compound constructions. And of course, there are number systems based on bases other than 10, but I assume we’re not considering those, because a base 12 (say) system will still have compounds, just based on the word for twelve instead of the word for ten. EDIT: And of course I looked it up after posting, instead of before. It looks like the usual pattern is actually “dick” or something like it for ten, then “yanadick”, “tanadick”, etc. So those actually start compounding earlier than standard English numbers. > **[Yan tan tethera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera)** > > Yan Tan Tethera or yan-tan-tethera is a sheep-counting system traditionally used by shepherds in Northern England and some other parts of Britain. The words are numbers taken from Brythonic Celtic languages such as Cumbric which had died out in most of Northern England by the sixth century, but they were commonly used for sheep counting and counting stitches in knitting until the Industrial Revolution, especially in the fells of the Lake District. Though most of these number systems fell out o Sh... ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/5 "2024-01-12T19:24:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And of course, there are number systems based on bases other than 10, but I assume we’re not considering those, because a base 12 (say) system will still have compounds, just based on the word for twelve instead of the word for ten. I would consider those to fit the narrative if they were actually numbers accepted by a culture that used a different base system and not something like hex where we just start using letters instead. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/6 "2024-01-12T19:34:44Z")
If you take one of those languages that do not have numerals (Pirahã), count by naming body parts (Foi), does not use base 10 (Ngiti, Ndom, Chocho, Skou…), and other such things, then you never use a form of “ten + _n_”. > [@Chronos](#): > > So those actually start compounding earlier than standard English numbers. NB I am not going to argue that “eleven” (one left) and “twelve” (two left) are actually compounding, but there is a non-obvious reference to ten, it just is not mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/7 "2024-01-13T07:44:25Z")
[Mayan](https://omniglot.com/language/numbers/yucatecmaya.htm) numerals are base-20 rather than base-10, so you get up to twenty with standalone words for numbers before 21 starts the series of words that are compounds of the words for other numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Dialo\_Malison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dialo_malison/32/14734_2.png) [@Dialo\_Malison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dialo_Malison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/8 "2024-01-13T07:50:05Z")
The highest distinct number in German is 12 (zwölf) same as English. After that they use dreizehn (literally threeten), etc. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/9 "2024-01-13T09:20:20Z")
That’s because they’re both Germanic languages. Other languages of the family, such as Dutch and Swedish, follow the same pattern. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/10 "2024-01-13T11:57:08Z")
What do we make of Hindi number words? There seem to be patterns, but with a lot of degradation. Superficially, it seems like numbers up to 99 pretty much have to be memorized. > **[Hindi Numbers 1 - 100](https://blogs.transparent.com/hindi/hindi-numbers-1-100/)** > > A simple table of Hindi numbers from 1 - 100. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/11 "2024-01-13T17:07:54Z")
I had thought that might be true about Mayan number names because of the base 20 thing, but your citation doesn’t support that. The names from 12 through 19 are just the number minus 10, suffixed with “lajun” (ten): > 2 = ka’, 12 = ka’alajun > 3 = óox, 13 = óoxlajun > 4 = kan, 14 = kanlajun > 5 = jo’o, 15 = jo’olajun > etc. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/12 "2024-01-13T20:34:59Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > What do we make of Hindi number words? There seem to be patterns, but with a lot of degradation. Superficially, it seems like numbers up to 99 pretty much have to be memorized. I was once told that Nepali is like that too. I couldn’t verify with a quick Google but both derive from Sanskrit so it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-number-is-highest-before-using-a-form-of-ten-and/996014/13 "2024-01-13T20:49:32Z")
The Germanic names of 11 and 12 implicitly reference ten and explicitly reference one and two, respectively. For example, English _eleven_ means “[ten and] one left [over]” and _twelve_ means “[ten and] two left [over].”