# What % of people actually believe the rapture is about to happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727 "2011-05-21T23:09:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/21 "2011-05-22T22:18:10Z")
this is depressingly funny ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/22 "2011-05-22T22:44:59Z")
> [@sich\_hinaufwinden](#): > > I don’t know what percentage of Americans distinguish between the 2nd coming and rapture but here’s a survey from last year that shows 41% of Americans believe the 2nd coming will happen by 2050. Scroll down to see a table with the results broken out by religious affiliation, education and region. > > [Section 3: War, Terrorism and Global Trends | Pew Research Center](http://people-press.org/2010/06/22/section-3-war-terrorism-and-global-trends/) That’s a great cite. The 2nd coming encompasses the rapture as I understand it. 58% of white evangelical Protestants believe that Jesus Christ will probably or definitely return to Earth within the next 40 years. That suggests to me that Christ’s _imminent_ return is not a core part of Evangelical doctrine. Among both mainline Christian Protestants and Catholics, 58% believe Christ’s return probably or definitely will _not_ happen within the next 40 years. There are also fairly predictable patterns by education and region. [BTV168: Slot Gacor Setiap Hari Tanpa Modal Besar Gampang Menang](http://www.religioustolerance.org/millenni.htm) [Religioustolerance.org](http://Religioustolerance.org) grinds through the various different Christian theories of the end of the world. I see that ancient Christians considered Darby’s theory to be heretical. Mainline groups tend towards Amillennialism: > [@religious tolerance dot org](#): > > Amillennialists believe that the millennium is not an actual physical realm on Earth. They do not believe that it will last 1,000 years. Rather it began at the time of Pentecost (circa 30 CE) and is currently active in the world today through the presence of the heavenly reign of Christ, the Bible, the Holy Spirit and the activities of Christian faith groups. Both good and evil will continue in the world during this time. Lawlessness, a falling away from the Church, and persecution of Christians will increase in magnitude. Finally, the current Church Age will end suddenly at Christ’s second coming. A type of Rapture will happen when Christ returns: believers will rise to meet Jesus in the sky. All will then shortly return to Earth. The Day of Judgment will then occur. Events described in The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) and in most of the book of Revelation are seen as occurrences which have already happened, or which are symbolic in nature and not to be taken literally. The Antichrist is looked upon figuratively and not as a real person. St. Augustine (354 - 430 CE) is often called the “Father of Amillennialism”. Most liberal Christians believe in No Millenialism: the books of Revelations and Daniel contain information specific to the time and have no prophetic value for our future. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/23 "2011-05-23T05:40:36Z")
> **[May 21 'Judgment Day' Believers React To Being Alive On May 22](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/may-21-judgment-day-may-22_n_865298)** > > May 21 'Judgment Day' Believers React To Being Alive On May 22 Here are some who were waiting for the end of the world. This includes some sheepish reactions after they missed out on their godly suck job into heaven. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/24 "2011-05-23T11:39:53Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > The concept of The Rapture and The Second Coming are fundaments of Christianity believed by all who consider themselves proper Christians everywhere on the entire planet. Completly wrong. If you read the whole Bible, there’s nothing about the Rapture in there. It’s in the [Scofield Bible](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scofield_Reference_Bible), bascially a fundie who annotated his own stuff without any sources or distinguishing his own stuff from the Bible itself. By your claim you’ve just ruled out all Catholics as not proper Christians, all major Protestant denominations in Europe as non-Proper Christians and most non-US influenced Christian denominations as non-proper Christians. > [@](#): > > Since Christianity is the world’s largest religion that’s alot of people. Only there isn’t “Christianity” as one monolithic block. Rather, it’s the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) - which doesn’t believe in the Rapture, and doesn’t care about the Apocalypse/ Second Coming the way the US fundies understand it -; the Orthodox Church - with several splinters, - dito the Protestant Lutheran groups in Europe - dito The Unitarians in the US, which apparently are rather laid back the fundie, evangelical groups in the US - which started this whole Rapture business, but numerically are a small sub-group > [@](#): > > The notion that the world will end on a specific date in not unique to America or to Christianity. It’s widely believed by all peoples (although only by, I would guess, a small minority of people). Again, factually wrong. Go into ten random churches in an US city on a sunday, chances are good you’ll hear at least one sermon on the end of times/ rapture/ signs from revelation etc. Go into random ten churches in Germany or Europe on a sunday, for ten weeks, and chances are you’ll never hear anything about this. You’ll hear a lot about living a Christian life by loving your neighbour, how to make society more just and not to leave the poor, the weak, the handicapped behind, how to bring justice to the 3rd world, how to protect the enviroment, … but not one word about Revelation. It’s not important for European Christians. It’s important to make this world a good place to live in, and when we die, we will go to heaven. That’s what being a Christian is about mostly for us, not being taken away to avoid death, and watch the rest of the world suffering. If you want more detail, I suggest [www.slacktivist.typepad.com](http://www.slacktivist.typepad.com) (for the older posts), “Left Behind” and [www.patheos.com/community/slacktivist](http://www.patheos.com/community/slacktivist) (for the newer posts). Fred Clark, who writes this, comes from the evangelical community himself, and thoroughly dissects the bad writing, bad theology and contradictions of the Left Behind series, giving a lot of historical and theological background showing how weak the ground the authors claim to stand on really is. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/25 "2011-05-23T12:20:18Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > The concept of The Rapture and The Second Coming are fundaments of Christianity believed by all who consider themselves proper Christians everywhere on the entire planet. Since Christianity is the world’s largest religion that’s alot of people. May 21sl, 10:00 PM was all Camping’s idea. > > The notion that the world will end on a specific date in not unique to America or to Christianity. It’s widely believed by all peoples (although only by, I would guess, a small minority of people). As others have pointed out, the Second Coming is a well-known concept in Christian beliefs. The Rapture concept is not in the Bible and is not commonly recognised outside certain sects in America. As I said, round the world, we’re aware of it only as another nutty American thing, like Creationism. If either of them pops up outside the USA, it’s driven by ex-pat Americans. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/26 "2011-05-23T12:36:21Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > As others have pointed out, the Second Coming is a well-known concept in Christian beliefs. The Rapture concept is not in the Bible and is not commonly recognised outside certain sects in America. > > As I said, round the world, we’re aware of it only as another nutty American thing, like Creationism. If either of them pops up outside the USA, it’s driven by ex-pat Americans. Messianic apocalypse is far from unique to the new world. I would take offense to the “another nutty American thing” comment if it weren’t for the fact that there are an awful lot of nutty American things. You overstate and appear to badly misunderstand the topic. There are certainly religious zealots who belong to fringe sects who believe in The Rapture. But belief is certainly far more widespread than just that and would apply to virtually all protestant faiths in the US. It’s simply what protestants believe here. You cannot marginalize belief in the Rapture quite so easily. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/27 "2011-05-23T12:38:53Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > The concept of The Rapture and The Second Coming are fundaments of Christianity believed by all who consider themselves proper Christians everywhere on the entire planet. How many Christians are there on the planet who _don’t_ consider themselves ‘proper’. (not many, I’m guessing) How many people are there who consider themselves ‘proper Christians’ on some other basis? (lots, I suspect) ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/28 "2011-05-23T12:45:53Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Only there isn’t “Christianity” as one monolithic block. Rather, it’s > the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) - which doesn’t believe in the Rapture, and doesn’t care about the Apocalypse/ Second Coming the way the US fundies understand it -; > the Orthodox Church - with several splinters, - dito > the Protestant Lutheran groups in Europe - dito > The Unitarians in the US, which apparently are rather laid back > the fundie, evangelical groups in the US - which started this whole Rapture business, but numerically are a small sub-group Surely since you’re so well-versed on the topic you must realize that every other major Religion of the world is the same… You do know that, don’t you? You do understand that there’s not one monolithic Buhddism, or Judaism, or Islam, etc. Right? Catholics most definitely believe in a Apocalypse/Second Coming. I can’t speak for European churches, but I can say a bit about Unitarianism and I can say that they aren’t necessarily Christian and as a church they don’t believe in one true god that is defined by a specific book or doctrine - in other words “not Christian”. A Church can preach whatever it wants, but a church does not believe in a messianic apocalypse then I would have to wonder if they are simply rejecting the New Testament. To me, that would sound more like a sect. Speaking as a non-Fundamentalist who rarely goes to church and does have any strongly held religious views. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/29 "2011-05-23T13:31:44Z")
Catholics believe in the Second Coming and a final Judgement but not the Rapture, which is a relatively recent invention. I stand open to correction on this but I believe that the Anglican Communion, which includes the Episcopalians, also does not subscribe to the notion of the Rapture. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/30 "2011-05-23T13:50:41Z")
There may be almost as many definitions of proper Christians as there are Christians. I tend to leave out those that have lost sight of the Bible as a whole, The Westboro Baptists, those that would shoot abortion doctors, and those that name a date for the end of the earth. Looking at the Bible as a whole, Jesus should return. The details are such that several points of view are in conflict. Most Christians I know are more like me, being more concerned with living a Christ like life now, and the possibility of dieing before the second coming. At the age of 67, I am very likely to die in the next 20 years. Having accepted Christ, I am ready for either, but dwell on neither. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/31 "2011-05-23T14:02:39Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Messianic apocalypse is far from unique to the new world. I would take offense to the “another nutty American thing” comment if it weren’t for the fact that there are an awful lot of nutty American things. > > You overstate and appear to badly misunderstand the topic. There are certainly religious zealots who belong to fringe sects who believe in The Rapture. But belief is certainly far more widespread than just that and would apply to virtually all protestant faiths in the US. It’s simply what protestants believe here. You cannot marginalize belief in the Rapture quite so easily. I doubt that even in the US, belief in the Rapture is widespread outside the fundie/ evangelical circles. There are many more Christians in the US than fundies (thank God ;)), but the fundies are loud, while the temperate Christians lead normal lives and so fall under the radar. Believing that one day the world may end IS NOT the same as believing in the Rapture. Believing that the Revelation of John is one of the many books in the Bible, but not of particular importance compared to living a good life today and making the world a better place now IS NOT the same as reading the whole Bible backwards from Revelation to find “prophecies” to apply to today, ignoring current problems because end times are just around the corner, and when God will rapture you, you can enjoy time by watching unbelievers burn. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/32 "2011-05-23T14:09:56Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Surely since you’re so well-versed on the topic you must realize that every other major Religion of the world is the same… > > You do know that, don’t you? You do understand that there’s not one monolithic Buhddism, or Judaism, or Islam, etc. Right? Yes, and? What’s your point? > [@](#): > > Catholics most definitely believe in a Apocalypse/Second Coming. They don’t believe in the Rapture, which you claimed. And what they believe of the Revelation of John, Apocalypse and Second Coming is completly different to how fundies and evangelicals understand that term. Look at post #22 from **Measure for Measure** , the last quote, that’s the official standpoint of the Catholic Church: Revelation is one of the books of the Bible; yes, one day the world will end, and Jesus will return; this isn’t terribly important compared to your life today and right now; when you die, and have been a good Christian, you will go to Heaven. > [@](#): > > I can’t speak for European churches, but I can say a bit about Unitarianism and I can say that they aren’t necessarily Christian and as a church they don’t believe in one true god that is defined by a specific book or doctrine - in other words “not Christian”. > > A Church can preach whatever it wants, but a church does not believe in a messianic apocalypse then I would have to wonder if they are simply rejecting the New Testament. To me, that would sound more like a sect. > > Speaking as a non-Fundamentalist who rarely goes to church and does have any strongly held religious views. So in other words, you keep on re-defining groups to suit your beliefs, by declaring whole churches “not really Christian” if they don’t believe in the importance of the apocalypse. You do sound like a fundie, because that’s their typical tactic. There’s the Real True Christians, (RTC) , who will be raptured, and everybody else, who’s a phony and going to burn in hell or suffer during the Apocalypse. Because that’s what Christianity is about: being smug and getting payback. Right? ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/33 "2011-05-23T16:19:21Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > So in other words, you keep on re-defining groups to suit your beliefs, by declaring whole churches “not really Christian” if they don’t believe in the importance of the apocalypse. > > You do sound like a fundie, because that’s their typical tactic. There’s the Real True Christians, (RTC) , who will be raptured, and everybody else, who’s a phony and going to burn in hell or suffer during the Apocalypse. Because that’s what Christianity is about: being smug and getting payback. Right? You sound like you’re trying to find a fundamentalist to pick a fight with. Sorry to not be the person you wish you were arguing with. But here I am nonetheless. I don’t have to “redefine” “Unitarian Universalism” as “not really Christian”. They do a perfectly job of defining themselves as not really Christian all the time. The importance of the apocalypse has less to do with it than the fact that you don’t have to believe in the divinity of Christ or really even in any divinity to be a welcome and wanted member. I’d call that “not really Christian”. Wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/34 "2011-05-23T17:39:52Z")
samjones – UUs are irrelevant. What about Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc… most of them do not believe in the Rapture either. Some individuals do, but it is not part of the doctrine of any of those churches. Are you going to claim they’re not really Christian either? ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/35 "2011-05-23T18:49:15Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > samjones – UUs are irrelevant. What about Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc… most of them do not believe in the Rapture either. Some individuals do, but it is not part of the doctrine of any of those churches. Are you going to claim they’re not really Christian either? Didn’t really read anything in the thread but the last post, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/36 "2011-05-23T19:03:59Z")
I read the whole post, and several people said the same thing, but you didn’t seem to be getting the message. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/37 "2011-05-23T19:07:57Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I read the whole post, and several people said the same thing, but you didn’t seem to be getting the message. Well if several people said the same thing then it must be correct. Do you have a specific question to ask me that has anything to do with anything that I actually wrote? ---
**Author:** ![scissorhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@scissorhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scissorhead)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/38 "2011-05-23T19:33:18Z")
I think that the problem is that there is no grand unified theology in Protestantism. The study of post Luther church history is nothing but division, schsims and sects. It is entirely possible that a whole new sect may arise out of the Camping camp. Spend a little time in any evengelical church and you’ll soon discover the huge divergence in opinion and thought regarding a whole lot of theological issues, not just eschatological. My rule of thumb is this: I have plenty of room in my brain for divergent opinion and thought; however, if you’re not a Doctor of Divinity or on track to obtaining such a degree, you’re just another guy with a Bible and an opinion. It doesn’t mean anything to me. We need to begin to respect scholarship again in this country, even and especially in such subjective and ellusory matters as theology. ( I highly recommend the books of Bart Ehrman.) If Christianity is going to have any kind of relevance in a world that is on the verge of “singularity” (see Ray Kurzweil) it needs to mature and quickly. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/39 "2011-05-23T20:11:50Z")
> [@scissorhead](#): > > I think that the problem is that there is no grand unified theology in Protestantism. The study of post Luther church history is nothing but division, schsims and sects. It is entirely possible that a whole new sect may arise out of the Camping camp. Spend a little time in any evengelical church and you’ll soon discover the huge divergence in opinion and thought regarding a whole lot of theological issues, not just eschatological. > > My rule of thumb is this: I have plenty of room in my brain for divergent opinion and thought; however, if you’re not a Doctor of Divinity or on track to obtaining such a degree, you’re just another guy with a Bible and an opinion. It doesn’t mean anything to me. > > We need to begin to respect scholarship again in this country, even and especially in such subjective and ellusory matters as theology. ( I highly recommend the books of Bart Ehrman.) If Christianity is going to have any kind of relevance in a world that is on the verge of “singularity” (see Ray Kurzweil) it needs to mature and quickly. Yes, good point. I think part of the problem is that too many knowledgeable people have sacrificed objectivity in support of an agenda. Having been lied to by ‘‘experts’’ too many times, people neither respect them or trust them. Unfortunately some may see Harold Camping as an expert and tar real ones with the same brush. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727/40 "2011-05-23T22:46:46Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Well if several people said the same thing then it must be correct. Do you have a specific question to ask me that has anything to do with anything that I actually wrote? I do. This is something you wrote: > [@samjones](#): > > The concept of The Rapture and The Second Coming are fundaments of Christianity believed by all who consider themselves proper Christians everywhere on the entire planet. What does this mean for groups listed above (not UUs), who don’t actually subscribe to the Rapture? The only way I can see of keeping it _logically_ consistent would be if you’re saying that Methodists, Catholics, etc are not included in the group ‘all who consider themselves proper Christians everywhere on the entire planet’. Was that what you intended. If not, how to resolve this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-of-people-actually-believe-the-rapture-is-about-to-happen/582727.md?page=3)