# What part of the U.S. is West Virginia in? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269 "2016-08-28T13:32:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/41 "2016-08-28T23:45:51Z")
Vermont was originally French (hence the name), then disputed between NY and NH (and maybe even MA), but it’s been considered part of New England since it came into being. There was an earlier “Dominion of New England” in the 1600s that included NY, but that didn’t last more than a few years. As long as the US has been in existence, NY has not been considered part of New England. Doesn’t matter what it looks like, it’s not New England. Period. Broadly speaking, New Englanders want nothing to do with New Yorkers (unless their last name is Kennedy). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/42 "2016-08-29T00:15:58Z")
Yeah, I think New England (unlike Appalachia) has always been understood as a drawn-on-state-lines region. More historopolitical than topographic. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/43 "2016-08-29T00:38:01Z")
From a political and legal standpoint, the idea of New England has no more meaning than the Midwest or the South. The only thing which unites Vermont and Rhode Island but excludes New Jersey and Ohio is that Vermont and Rhode Island share common cultural traditions that New Jersey and Ohio do not. And cultural traditions don’t recognize state lines. Northern California and Southern California have two distinct cultures even though they both exist in a single state. People in Alabama and Mississippi share a common culture even though they’re two separate states. Places in Northeast New Jersey like Jersey City and Hoboken - and West New York - are culturally much more linked to New York City than they are to Trenton or Princeton or Atlantic City. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/44 "2016-08-29T00:49:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The only thing which unites Vermont and Rhode Island but excludes New Jersey and Ohio is that Vermont and Rhode Island share common cultural traditions that New Jersey and Ohio do not. Like what? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/45 "2016-08-29T01:00:05Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Like what? Ice cream! Regardless, this does seem to come up every couple years on this MB. New England, unlike any other “region” in the US has a definite border. It’s 6 states, no more no less, no controversy, no uncertainty, no nothing. It’s ME, NH, VT, MA, CT and RI. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/46 "2016-08-29T01:12:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ice cream! > > Regardless, this does seem to come up every couple years on this MB. New England, unlike any other “region” in the US has a definite border. It’s 6 states, no more no less, no controversy, no uncertainty, no nothing. It’s ME, NH, VT, MA, CT and RI. Period. According to whom? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/47 "2016-08-29T01:18:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > According to whom? The census bureau via [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_States#Official_regions_of_the_United_States). > [@](#): > > Regional divisions used by the United States Census Bureau:[6] > > ``` > Region 1: Northeast > Division 1: New England (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont) > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/48 "2016-08-29T02:32:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > According to whom? According to everyone. Well, except maybe you. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/49 "2016-08-29T04:29:33Z")
I’d easily consider PA, MD, DE, and NJ as Mid-Atlantic states. NY is NOT a New England state. Maybe it’s a North East state. I’d lump WV in with the Mid-Atlantic. OH thinks of itself as Midwest. Though it could also be a Great Lakes state. What’s more important in Ohio are your 2 favorite football teams. OSU and whatever team is playing against UM that weekend. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/50 "2016-08-29T05:56:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As I noted, Upstate New York is small rural communities. Their economy is based around farming and tourism. There are no big cities. They have a lot more in common with people in Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine than they do with people in Buffalo and Syracuse and Binghampton. I went to college in Albany. It was way too small for _me_, but it sure wasn’t rural. Troy either. And it didn’t feel like New England. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/51 "2016-08-29T05:57:41Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > When it came to school segregation, Maryland in general and PG County specifically, [were pretty Southern.](http://www.watson.org/~lisa/blackhistory/school-integration/pgcounty/earlystp.html) No kidding. A year or two after I graduated (1986) my PG County high school came under a desegregation order. It was around 90% Black. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/52 "2016-08-29T09:13:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > According to whom? The polls. All of them. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/53 "2016-08-29T12:21:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I think the Dutch imprint is still present and remembered in the area where it actually mattered, which is the twenty mile or so radius from the tip of Manhattan Island. There are dozens of Dutch names throughout the city. > > Not so much, any further out. I’d say up the Hudson to at least Albany. Also along the Mohawk for a while, at least as far as Amsterdam. The only part of New York that might feel like New England is the counties bordering Vermont and Massachusetts. And they’re still not part of New England. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/54 "2016-09-01T20:22:43Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I’d easily consider PA, MD, DE, and NJ as Mid-Atlantic states. NY is NOT a New England state. Maybe it’s a North East state. I agree. New York as a whole is not a New England state. Only the northeast portion of New York is. > [@ruadh](#): > > I went to college in Albany. It was way too small for _me_, but it sure wasn’t rural. Troy either. And it didn’t feel like New England. Albany and Troy are part of Midstate New York not Upstate New York. > [@MrDibble](#): > > The polls. All of them. What polls? A quick count. How many people in this conversation about what Upstate New York (as in north of Warrensburg) is like have actually lived there for twenty years? I’m raising my hand here. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/55 "2016-09-02T05:31:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Albany and Troy are part of Midstate New York not Upstate New York. Not according to them, they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/56 "2016-09-02T09:12:41Z")
I can understand why some New Yorkers might want to be part of New England, but unfortunately\* they aren’t. Outsiders don’t get to make themselves insiders by proclamation. \*Unfortunately for them, fortunately for us actual New Englanders. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269/57 "2016-09-02T12:28:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I can understand why some New Yorkers might want to be part of New England, but unfortunately\* they aren’t. Outsiders don’t get to make themselves insiders by proclamation. > > \*Unfortunately for them, fortunately for us actual New Englanders. There are a bunch of places where marginal groups consider themselves part of a group and there are not _always_ good reasons to deny them. It’s a case by case basis. In the case of New England, if New Yorkers suddenly considered themselves part of New England, which they don’t, it would cause communication confusion so I would disagree with their efforts. On the other hand, the region of Appalachia is nebulous enough that I’m willing to consider any mountainous region of PA and OH to be part of Appalachia as long as the residents there think it is. That said, I don’t see much difference between Vermont and that part of New York State north and east of the Albany metro area, but I haven’t lived in either place, just the Southern Tier for 15 years. I wouldn’t consider them New England, but if there were some sort of regional “Upper New England Regional Council” similar to the [Appalachian Regional Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Regional_Commission), I wouldn’t balk if that region were included, just like the Southern Tier is included in the ARC even though residents definitely do not consider themselves to be part of Appalachia. It wouldn’t surprise me if the economic and social issues facing the eastern Adirondacks were similar to that of upper New England, just like there are economic similarities between Appalachia and the Southern Tier of NYS (i.e. changes in how heavily agriculture, resource exploitation, tourism, and mid-scale industry play as parts of the economy.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-part-of-the-u-s-is-west-virginia-in/764269.md?page=2)