# What passenger aircraft was ice-tested after a crash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424 "2007-11-06T17:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/1 "2007-11-06T17:10:05Z")
Several years ago a passenger aircraft crashed, killing everyone on board. It was thought that icing was the cause. Tests where made where an identical aircraft flew behind a tanker that sprayed it with water in freezing conditions. The tests confirmed that flying this aircraft in icing conditions would result in loss of control. But what kind of aircraft was it? I’m thinking an Embraer operated by Comair in 1997. Is that the crash I’m thinking of (that prompted the icing test with an acutal aircraft)? ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/2 "2007-11-06T17:21:54Z")
> **[Report Released on Crash That Killed 68 (Published 1996)](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/04/us/report-released-on-crash-that-killed-68.html)** American Eagle turboprop – an ATR-72 Fits your description and for some reason I remember this story. Hope this helps. “Those tests included measuring the tilting forces created while taxiing at high-speeds with wooden shapes attached to the wings. In addition, some aircraft were flown behind a tanker plane, which sprayed them with water to see how they would perform in such conditions…” ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/3 "2007-11-06T22:56:54Z")
Why couldn’t they just put it on a treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/4 "2007-11-06T23:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Airblairxxx] Why couldn’t they just put it on a treadmill? [/QUOTE] Couldn’t get enough speed for a true test with all the engineers hanging on the wings arguing over whether the wheels would burn up. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/5 "2007-11-07T03:47:43Z")
ATR 72. Roselawn Illinois. The issue was that when holding with flaps partly extended and at a fairly high AOA the ice would form behind the deice boots. They drove around in light mixed ice for some 40 minutes before the buildup became critical. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/6 "2024-08-12T03:48:14Z")
I googled “tailplane stall” yesterday and ran across this page. A test that may be the one you are thinking about is described midway down. > **[Tailplane Stall: The Aerodynamics & How You Can Recover](https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news/tailplane-stall-the-aerodynamics-how-you-can-recover?srsltid=AfmBOoqOnaUCR7qBwJXqs20KYpPkJeP0vrpdzQGPLO6ONQwbAkf3sg_h)** > > Usually, when we talk about airplane stalls, we are referencing aerodynamic wing stalls. A lesser discussed and potentially more lethal type of aerodynamic stall is a tailplane stall. As a pilot, it’s important to understand the unique situations in... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/7 "2024-08-12T03:50:09Z")
Wait, 2007? I thought this thread was from today, about the Brazil crash. I must have clicked on one of the new Discord AI recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/8 "2024-08-12T04:54:34Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > In addition, some aircraft were flown behind a tanker plane, which sprayed them with water to see how they would perform in such conditions… Wouldn’t that be a bit risky? Flying a plane and trying to make it ice up? Reminds me of Calvin’s Dad’s explanation for how they determine the max weight load for a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/9 "2024-08-12T10:02:11Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Wait, 2007? I thought this thread was from today, about the Brazil crash. I must have clicked on one of the new Discord AI recommendations. You were maybe thinking of this thread: > [@Pilots: what caused Voepass Linhas Aéreas Flight 2283 to crash?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550): > > In case you missed it, a plane carrying 62 people crashed in Brazil yesterday: There’s not much official speculation about the cause yet. Video footage from the ground (you can find lots of clips on YouTube) shows the plane coming pretty much straight down in something close to a flat spin, and it sounds like it may have been descending like this from near cruising altitude until it pancaked on the ground. Crash scene photos show the fuselage pancaked from top to bottom, consistent with havi… ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/10 "2024-08-12T11:46:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Wait, 2007? I thought this thread was from today, about the Brazil crash. Some people think this is the most similar crash to the Brazil one (note icing conditions were forecast for Brazil and this was an ATR turboprop): > **[American Eagle Flight 4184](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eagle_Flight_4184)** > > American Eagle Flight 4184, officially operating as Simmons Airlines Flight 4184, was a scheduled domestic passenger flight from Indianapolis, Indiana, to Chicago, Illinois, United States. On October 31, 1994, the ATR 72 performing this route flew into severe icing conditions, lost control and crashed into a field. All 68 people aboard were killed in the high-speed impact. > The aircraft involved, registration N401AM, was built by the French-Italian aircraft manufacturer ATR and was powered by t... ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/11 "2024-08-12T18:42:46Z")
From the video I saw, the plane was in a flat spin. I heard icing blamed on the news today. An alternatie explanation for a flat spin is IIRC center of gravity too far back, so when the plane stalls it does not nose dive. I find it weird that anyone would deliberately ice a plane in flight. I assume it was not Calvin mode “until failure” (or the report would be more interesting) but to see where the ice starts to form and build, if the issue is that it can form in serious amounts behind the deicing boots. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-passenger-aircraft-was-ice-tested-after-a-crash/425424/12 "2024-08-12T21:25:31Z")
In flight? This is a job for NASA’s Icing Research Tunnel at the Glenn Research Center. Their motto is “We freeze to please”. I worked there for awhile early in my career. After an icing run the wind tunnel would idle back to about 35 mph and we suited up in Arctic parkas and de-iced the wings with steam hoses and ran again. Once I was being blown downstream on the icy floor and had to hand over hand on the steam hose to get back! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO5VX72kBMc&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO5VX72kBMc&t=2s)