# What Penalty Do You Think is Appropriate For Torture **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262 "2022-08-25T00:45:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/1 "2022-08-25T00:45:34Z")
Using standard and internationally accepted definitions, what penalties would you deem appropriate for current or retired public officials who knowingly engage in activities unambiguously defined as torture, over an extended period? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/2 "2022-08-25T00:51:49Z")
My Cathode sense is tingling. This feels very strongly like a set up for a gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/3 "2022-08-25T00:58:04Z")
Not really. I was thinking of some alleged actions in Ukraine, where there have been claims. Almost every country in the world officially rebukes the practice. I do not know if things like confining, surveilling and re-educating certain Asian ethic groups, or separating immigrant babies from their parents meets the legal definition options or not. But if it was unambiguous, what actions would you take? Do you think any of these actions qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/4 "2022-08-25T02:57:02Z")
By many definitions of torture, the way the USA is treating prisoners in the superMax prison in Colorado\* (permeant solitary confinement, restricted movement, no reading material, etc.) would be classified as torture. As well as violating the Geneva prisoner-or-war conventions. But I doubt that the guards at this prison deserve any penalty. So this question seems rather confused. \*Not that I think any of these prisoners should be released – as far as I can see, they all deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/5 "2022-08-25T03:44:14Z")
I think torture is the appropriate penalty for unambiguous torture over the same period of time it was applied by the torturer, assuming the torturer was not ordered to act under threat of torture themselves. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/6 "2022-08-25T05:19:15Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > what penalties would you deem appropriate for current or retired public officials who knowingly engage in activities unambiguously defined as torture, over an extended period? Life imprisonment - in a relatively decent prison, mind you, not like a Russian, US or South African hellhole. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/7 "2022-08-25T12:17:05Z")
Prison. What other legal penalties do we have to work with? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/8 "2022-08-25T13:30:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Life imprisonment - in a relatively decent prison, mind you, not like a Russian, US or South African hellhole. Agreed. A civilized society treats its criminals better than they treated their victims. Ideally they can be rehabilitated, but if that is not possible, then life in prison, maybe with a review every ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/9 "2022-08-25T13:41:37Z")
Curtailment of prison canteen privileges, and having Bee Gees disco tunes piped into your cell for 12 hours a day seem like just punishment. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > A civilized society treats its criminals better than they treated their victims. Ideally they can be rehabilitated, but if that is not possible, then life in prison, maybe with a review every ten years. So what’s appropriate treatment of a prisoner doing life who repeatedly kills fellow inmates and participates in a near-fatal stabbing of a guard? > **[Top 10 for 2018: Casey Pigge continues violent prison assaults](https://www.chillicothegazette.com/story/news/2018/12/28/top-10-2018-casey-pigge-continues-violent-prison-assaults/2420857002/)** > > Casey Pigge, convicted of a Chillicothe murder in 2008 has killed or attempted to kill while in prison for the last three years. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/10 "2022-08-25T13:50:06Z")
I agree with the California law that gives a life sentence with the possibility of parole. The issue for me is, what constitutes “torture”? For example, if you intensely interrogate a suspect for hours and hours on end, that could be considered “torture” even though you didn’t lay a hand on him. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/11 "2022-08-25T13:52:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So what’s appropriate treatment of a prisoner doing life who repeatedly kills fellow inmates and participates in a near-fatal stabbing of a guard? I suppose a slap-drone is out of the question? More strict supervision and complete loss of privileges would have to do. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/12 "2022-08-25T14:08:30Z")
One key test of who the Good Guys are vs. the Bad Guys is how they treat people under their control. Prisoners, people under occupation, etc. The Good Guys treat these people humanely. The Bad Guys don’t. So, no. You never, ever torture anyone for any reason. Arguments on the order of “they’d do it do you”, etc. are fundamentally disgusting and immoral. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/13 "2022-08-25T15:01:09Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Using standard and internationally accepted definitions, what penalties would you deem appropriate for current or retired public officials who knowingly engage in activities unambiguously defined as torture, over an extended period? Life in a humane maximum-security prison. Not a Club Fed, but not some Russian or North Korean hell-hole or whatever. Routine safeguards to protect them from other inmates, etc. As @Charlie_Tan said, as a civilized society we have to treat criminals better than they treated their victims. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/14 "2022-08-25T15:24:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So what’s appropriate treatment of a prisoner doing life who repeatedly kills fellow inmates and participates in a near-fatal stabbing of a guard? I don’t think we as society should treat any human in the same primal way that they themselves acted. If the prison is not safe for fellow prisoners, the fault is with the prison system not being able to protect them from a violent individual. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/15 "2022-08-25T15:33:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > So what’s appropriate treatment of a prisoner doing life who repeatedly kills fellow inmates and participates in a near-fatal stabbing of a guard? > > More strict supervision and complete loss of privileges would have to do. Careful there. Loss of visitation, phone or mail privileges [has been deemed inhumane](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2021/12/21/family_contact/). The American Bar Association casts a jaundiced eye on measures that don’t allow inmates as much time out of their cells as possible and ample recreational opportunities. Restrict food parcels? Not if you can argue that prison food is insufficiently healthful, nutritional and palatable. And there should be enough light in cells during the day for reading. “Complete loss of privileges” doesn’t fly with inmate advocates. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-penalty-do-you-think-is-appropriate-for-torture/970262/16 "2022-08-25T15:52:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Loss of visitation, phone or mail privileges [has been deemed inhumane](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2021/12/21/family_contact/). Remember, I’m _not_ talking about an American max security prison, so things like decent food and using the phone are not what I was labeling “privileges”. I am _not_ saying throw the dude in solitary.