# \[What people had their own symbols\] \[Original title:Things Obama copied from Hitler.\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354 "2016-03-09T00:18:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/21 "2016-03-09T02:03:01Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Heraldry is basically a whole system of personal symbols. Each coat of arms represents a particular individual (or a particular corporate institution, but mostly an individual). It follows that, historically, most leaders (and indeed most persons of any status) in the western world have had, and have used, personal symbols. > > Occasionally, the symoblism can be blurred. Do the [royal arms](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/2000px-Royal_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png) in the UK represent Queen Elizabeth II, or do they represent the kingdom, the monarchy, or royal authority generally? They are used for both purposes, is the answer, so traditionally British monarch have a purely personal symbol as well. Nowadays this is the [royal cypher](http://www.dc-graphicdesigns.co.uk/images/coasterqueencypherred.jpg), but in the past it was a royal badge; for example Richard III used [a badge showing a boar](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/White_Boar_Badge_of_Richard_III.svg/2000px-White_Boar_Badge_of_Richard_III.svg.png), while Henry V used [a beacon](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Fire_Beacon_Badge_of_Henry_V.svg/80px-Fire_Beacon_Badge_of_Henry_V.svg.png). > > Neither Hitler nor Obama had persona badges in this sense, I think. Hitler did use a “personal standard” which was a variant on the party flag - red background, white roundel, swastika, but the swastika was surrounded by a garland of oak leaves in gold, and there were party eagles and Wehrmacht eagles in the four corners of the banner. But as the symbolism and the full title (“Personal standard for Adolf Hitler as Leader and Chancellor of the German Nation”) suggest, the standard represented (and was used by) Hitler in his official capacity, not Hitler the man. > > Similarly Obama can use the [US presidential standard](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/US_Presidential_Flag_1945.svg/2000px-US_Presidential_Flag_1945.svg.png), but it represents him in his official capacity, and the same standard was used by his predecessors and will presumptively be used by his successors. Oh yeah, very good. I hadn’t thought a lot about the whole heraldry thing. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/22 "2016-03-09T02:06:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [The Queen](https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrTHRgVg99W5Q0ASFZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Queen+Elizabth%27s+Symbool&fr=ymyy-t-999), of course. Not to mention [the Queen](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Private_Monogram_of_Queen_Margrethe_of_Denmark.svg/97px-Private_Monogram_of_Queen_Margrethe_of_Denmark.svg.png). ---
**Author:** ![Gretchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8edcca/32.png) [@Gretchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gretchion)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/23 "2016-03-09T03:20:23Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > I was just on facebook and saw a post that made the following statement: Only two people in history had their own symbols, Hitler (followed by a swastika) and Obama (followed by a red, white and blue capital O). > > …snip… > Anywho, any else had personal symbols? What about Bush2 and a capital W? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/24 "2016-03-09T03:26:14Z")
Thread title edited to indicate actual subject. Please don’t post misleading thread titles. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/25 "2016-03-09T03:35:48Z")
There are the [symbols](https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3aed4bce53f393c9b4ac315a4f3829f7?convert_to_webp=true) the four members of Led Zeppelin chose to represent themselves. These are indisputable cases of people specifically choosing symbols to represent themselves as individuals. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/26 "2016-03-09T04:03:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There are the [symbols](https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3aed4bce53f393c9b4ac315a4f3829f7?convert_to_webp=true) the four members of Led Zeppelin chose to represent themselves. These are indisputable cases of people specifically choosing symbols to represent themselves as individuals. Perfect, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/27 "2016-03-09T04:55:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Jesus](https://www.google.com/search?q=crucifix&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqjaHqrLLLAhVHFT4KHSOND5EQ_AUIBygB&biw=1366&bih=667#imgrc=_) Besides the cross/crucifix there’s also: [The Fish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys) [The Lamb of God.](https://scpeanutgallery.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lamb-of-god-stained-glass.jpg) [The Chi-Rho.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho) [Alpha and Omega.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_Omega) [IX Monogram](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IX_monogram) [The Staurogram](http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/the-staurogram/) and others. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/28 "2016-03-09T05:06:36Z")
When literacy wasn’t anywhere near universal, lots of people had “marks.” If you were an artisan, you marked all your work with your mark, and usually had it on a sign above your shop, in addition to using it to sign documents. You might be literate, but you wanted to be recognized by people who were not, so rather than sign your name, you had your mark, often based on your initials. Ranchers had brands for their cattle, that signified who owned the cattle, so the brands, or marks, or symbols, stood for the ranchers. Hallmarks of artisans and brands became so traditional that they lasted into the time that literacy became pretty widespread. Early logos of businesses were usually based on the name or initials of the founder. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/29 "2016-03-09T05:34:07Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > When literacy wasn’t anywhere near universal, lots of people had “marks.” . . . Early logos of businesses were usually based on the name or initials of the founder. Initials weren’t used so much, precisely because in a largely non-literate society they were no more use than words. The symbol of the Medici banking house was six red balls. The origin is uncertain, but a likely explanation is that they represent drug pills, and are a reference to the family name (which means “doctors”). Löwenbräu, the German brewery established in the fourteenth century, has the symbol of a lion. Monte Dei Paschi di Siena, the world’s oldest bank still trading, has a mountain on its badge. And so forth; there’s a certain theme here. Even Johannes Gutenberg, who might be expected to be selling into a literate market, used a stylised representation of a printing press as his mark. I don’t think initials are much used to identify businesses before about the sixteenth century. Not coincidentally, it’s also in the sixteenth century that British monarchs cease to use badges (a boar, a rose, a falcon) as their main personal identifiers, and start to use cyphers more and more (“HR” for Henry VIII, for example) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/30 "2016-03-09T05:48:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not just politicians, either. For instance, [Tolkien had his own symbol](https://www.google.com/search?q=tolkien+rune&biw=1270&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB3NDvv7LLAhUD7GMKHWkfDocQsAQIMQ&dpr=0.8#imgrc=P-MSOpae4apb7M%3A). > > Heck, I’ve got one for myself, inspired by Tolkien’s, that I use to sign my artistic works. This makes me think of [Albrecht Durer](http://www.suedtirol.info/mediaObject/smg/images/data/pois/wanderung/file-4964904/original/file-4964904.jpg), who signed his art with an abstract “AD” logo. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/31 "2016-03-09T07:22:38Z")
King David’s six-pointed star. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/32 "2016-03-09T07:43:06Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > King David’s six-pointed star. We have no reason to think that this was used by King David, or in his time. It first appears as a decorative motif in architecture in about the fourth century CE, but there is no reason to think it had any represenational function - it was just ornamentation. From maybe about the tenth century CE it starts to be used in contexts which suggests that it symbolises Jewish identity or Judaism. From about the fifteenth century until the nineteenth it’s occasionally referred to as the “Shield of David” or the “Star of David”, but it’s not otherwise associated with King David; just with Judaism. (It’s also sometimes known during this period as the “Seal of Solomon”.) It doesn’t eclipse other symbols of Judaism (e.g. the menorah, the Lion of Judah) in popularity until it’s adopted by the Zionist movement around the turn of the twentieth century. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/33 "2016-03-09T07:48:54Z")
[Michael Jordan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Jumpman_logo.svg) [Deadmau5](http://media.lessthan3.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/deadmau5disney.jpg) [Skrillex](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/r2d/images/2/29/Skrillex_logo_by_grohiikz-d6hi6fm.png/revision/latest?cb=20141015200045) [Marshawn Lynch](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/560098084877635584/pc6mPbha_400x400.jpeg) [Robert Griffin III](http://i.imgur.com/vmfgDm2.png) [Mitt Romney](http://s282.photobucket.com/user/josmndsn/media/romneyR-logo.png.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/34 "2016-03-09T07:50:03Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > AHHHH, now we’re on to something. I’ll be posting this to his page. Stay back at least 30 feet from your computer screen in case his head explodes. You’re not seriously going to engage with that nutbar are you? I know, fighting ignorance and all that - but this would be like mud wrestling a pig - you can’t possibly win, and the pig enjoys it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/35 "2016-03-09T08:05:35Z")
Coats of arms are personal. Yes, families do have coats of arms, but a person can also make up his own (they had to start somewhere, you know, way before there was anybody to decide what was and was not Acceptable); often, an individual would modify his family’s coat of arms in some way to differentiate himself from the rest of the siblings and cousins (it was common for example to add a colored border or to paint an existing checkerboard pattern in colors other than black and white). In my grandmother’s house there was a glass window with the “quartered arms” of my great-great-great-grandfather, an arrangement I have seen in other materials from the 16th-19th centuries: a very busy coat of arms where each quarter corresponds to the arms of each of that person’s four lastnames. Before literacy became common, many people would have “their sign” be a little picture rather than a plain cross. The _arrano beltza_ (black eagle in Basque) was the personal signature of Sancho VII of Navarre. It’s now being claimed as a political symbol by local groups [of a surprising array of ideologies](http://lacajadebajodelacam.blogspot.com.es/2008/06/el-arrano-beltza-el-smbolo-que-une.html) (link in Spanish). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/36 "2016-03-09T13:44:39Z")
I have a personal symbol, based in part on the coincidence of my name and a mathematical symbol. I have used it since grad school and put it on my nametag at meetings. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/37 "2016-03-09T16:50:42Z")
The pattern of plaid is “house-specific” for them cute lil’ skirts Scotsmen wear. [{Official register}](http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/index.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/38 "2016-03-09T17:07:39Z")
I’m guessing that someone in Egypt probably conforms to this system. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/39 "2016-03-09T17:10:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > You’re not seriously going to engage with that nutbar are you? I know, fighting ignorance and all that - but this would be like mud wrestling a pig - you can’t possibly win, and the pig enjoys it. Not engage in the sense of some sort of rational debate, more like a point and laugh. Now that I think of it the point and laugh thing meshes nicely with your pig wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354/40 "2016-03-09T18:02:47Z")
I made one that I’ve used since the 70’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-people-had-their-own-symbols-original-title-things-obama-copied-from-hitler/748354.md?page=3)