# What percentage of people do you think are jerks/bullies? What percentage of police officers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069 "2015-01-05T22:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/1 "2015-01-05T22:25:46Z")
I had a conversation with a retired police officer acquaintance recently about all the hubbub lately. I asked him how many cops he thought were assholes, and he had an answer ready: “20% of cops want to be Supercop – the best on the force, a superhero, getting all the bad guys. 60% want to be decent cops, stay safe, do their jobs, and go home at night. And 20% are bullies who like the power trip.” That made me think of the [20/80](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) “rule” – that, in many circumstances, about 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. Combining this and my retired cop’s answer, perhaps we can postulate that 20% of asshole cops are responsible for 80% or more of any bad police behavior. So first, is this 20% number reasonable for the amount of asshole cops? How does it compare to the amount of assholes in the general population? If it is reasonable, what can be done about it? I have the impression that the “Brotherhood” protects even these assholes, because of the worry that the decent cops might be swept up in any sanctions for bad behavior. Is this impression reasonable? Any other thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/2 "2015-01-05T22:32:52Z")
I’d guess it is a little higher than 20% in the police force (maybe 25-30) and closer to 10-15% in the general public. I believe police work attracts some of the wrong kinds of people and brings out bad personality traits among officers so it would be higher. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/3 "2015-01-05T22:42:05Z")
With our own unpleasant behavior, we count the external cicumstances. Tired, wary, didn’t know, etc. With others unpleasant behavior , we are quick to say it’s their personality. That is called the Attribution-Bias. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/4 "2015-01-05T23:01:25Z")
I’ve long believed that somewhere between 15-25% of people are assholes (a category a little wider than just jerks/bullies who I’d class as subsets of my wider category). I don’t have any particular reason to believe that cops are any different from the general population in that regard. So I’d say the OPs friend’s estimate of 20% sounds plausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/5 "2015-01-05T23:20:37Z")
Continuum with 1-3% being agressive jerks, maybe fading into another 2-7% being OK most of the time, but easily moved into dick-mode. On the opposite end we have actual supercops, and cops who can approach a drunk (white!) guy brandishing a gun and get him to have a sit-down and chat some sense into him. Nobody really cares about the top level performers, just the shitheads. And I’m certain the %s change from department to department, some having better community-relations than others. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/6 "2015-01-06T14:15:22Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’d guess it is a little higher than 20% in the police force (maybe 25-30) and closer to 10-15% in the general public. I believe police work attracts some of the wrong kinds of people and brings out bad personality traits among officers so it would be higher. I agree with this general thesis and rationale, though I can’t say about the numbers. What I would add is that there’s no hard-and-fast dividing line between jerks and non-jerks - it’s more of a continuum. So I would just say that there’s a higher level of jerkishness among cops, mostly for the reasons that WC gives - that the job and its petty power perks attracts punks and power trippers. But it’s also likely that the occupation brings out the jerkishness in a lot of people who might otherwise have their jerkish tendencies restrained by life circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/7 "2015-01-06T14:17:00Z")
Should we get rid of the cops who display jerkish and bullying tendencies? I think that we should. If so, how? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/8 "2015-01-06T14:20:33Z")
Your second question renders the first moot. In theory we should get rid of them, but as a practical matter it’s not feasible. Unless it gets really egregious in which case there are disciplinary proceedings that can be brought against them. But even there they tend to be protected by professional loyalty and by strong unions. Suffering petty harassment from jerkish cops is one of the more minor annoyances of life. It’s a lot better than the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/9 "2015-01-06T14:23:07Z")
I couldn’t handle being a cop. 100% of the the police force have to deal with the 10-15% asshole public daily, every day, all day. That would make me seriously jaded. If that’s all i’d see all day i’d feel like the whole world just sucks. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/10 "2015-01-06T14:26:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Your second question renders the first moot. In theory we should get rid of them, but as a practical matter it’s not feasible. Unless it gets really egregious in which case there are disciplinary proceedings that can be brought against them. But even there they tend to be protected by professional loyalty and by strong unions. > > Suffering petty harassment from jerkish cops is one of the more minor annoyances of life. It’s a lot better than the alternative. Can’t we prevent them, or at least some of them (perhaps the worst) from becoming cops in the first place? Are there ways to determine who is motivated at least partly by the desire to bully and exercise power? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/11 "2015-01-06T14:33:24Z")
I assume some people are already trying to do that. But I doubt if you could have much impact. Maybe a little better or a little worse, but not much is going to change. As noted, it’s an inherent problem. Another way to look at it is to compare the cops in the US with those of a lot of Third World countries. Then they’ll look a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/12 "2015-01-06T14:37:08Z")
There doesn’t seem to be much evidence for the 20 / 80 ‘rule’, so it’s hard to see how you can use that as a basis for anything. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/13 "2015-01-06T14:42:08Z")
Judging by my workplace, I’d say that 20% being jerks and bullies is pretty close. Everybody in management is, and there are plenty who would be just as bad given half a chance. Power corrupts and power jerkifies and bullifies. Given that we arm the police, that power probably goes to the head of say 30% of them. It’s my perception that those people prone to be bullies are more likely to choose policework as a profession. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/14 "2015-01-06T14:56:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can’t we prevent them, or at least some of them (perhaps the worst) from becoming cops in the first place? Could pay them better, require at least a 4-year liberal arts degree and continuing education in either criminal justice or work toward a law degree. Basically change the candidate to reflect an apprentice of law rather than low level government employee. Of course the higher you raise the brows of the police officer, the further you get the cop’s mind away from that of the more violent trouble makers, potentially impairing cop’s ability to relate with those in need of a little law enforcement. That comes off as a bit elitist, doesn’t it. As an alternative, we could disarm the police and force them to be a bit more creative in how they justify their authority. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/15 "2015-01-06T15:00:40Z")
[Here’s a link to a thread about a police beating in Houston.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=595760&highlight=confidence) The first six guys in started kicking and hitting the guy who had obviously surrendered. I figure 88% thugs to get 6 guys without running across one who held back. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/16 "2015-01-06T15:01:34Z")
> [@glee](#): > > There doesn’t seem to be much evidence for the 20 / 80 ‘rule’, so it’s hard to see how you can use that as a basis for anything. What are you basing that on? It’s a rule of thumb, sure, but a reasonably accurate one in terms of predicting that the vast majority of something isn’t the cause of the problem. Just because it shifts to 90/10 or 70/30 in some cases doesn’t really invalidate the concept. > **[Pareto principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle)** > > The Pareto principle (also known as the 80/20 rule, the law of the vital few and the principle of factor sparsity) states that for many outcomes, roughly 80% of consequences come from 20% of causes (the "vital few"). > In 1941, management consultant Joseph M. Juran developed the concept in the context of quality control and improvement after reading the works of Italian sociologist and economist Vilfredo Pareto, who wrote in 1906 about the 80/20 connection while teaching at the University of Lausa... Anyway, for the purposes of the thread, it does seem like some relatively small proportion of policemen are bad apples, so to speak. I’d say that it’s probably more situational than anything else- the number of _true_ bad apples who are constantly bullies and dicks is probably much lower than 20% in most large police forces- probably on the order of 2-5%. These are the guys who either liked picking on people, or who look at being a cop as their way of getting back at the world. However, there’s probably another 20-30% who, in the right(wrong?) circumstances, go from being good cops to complete dicks. They’re probably just fine handing out speeding tickets to people who are reasonable about it, or working security at a store, or just being a beat cop, but you get the right belligerent asshole saying just the wrong things when they get pulled over, or a suspect defying him a little too openly, and out comes the taser or nightstick. A lot of it I suspect is what **Hampshire** is saying; if 95% of the people you deal with on a daily basis are either criminals, people who are otherwise acting out, or people who you have to warn/crack down on for whatever reason, and a large proportion are disrespectful of you and your profession, I can totally see how a person would quit giving a shit reallly fast. I’m a long way from a bully, but I suspect that if I was a cop, I’d probably be somewhat of an ass a lot of the time for the reasons I just mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/17 "2015-01-06T15:16:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I assume some people are already trying to do that. But I doubt if you could have much impact. Maybe a little better or a little worse, but not much is going to change. As noted, it’s an inherent problem. > > Another way to look at it is to compare the cops in the US with those of a lot of Third World countries. Then they’ll look a lot better. If we compare the cops in the US to those in a lot of First World countries, then by the same logic they look pretty awful, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/18 "2015-01-06T15:17:35Z")
I doubt it. I assume they’re probably about the same. Do you have reason to believe otherwise? If not, then it’s apparently possible to do better than we’re doing here, and we should find out what they’re doing elsewhere and consider copying that. But my assumption is that this is not the case, absent evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/19 "2015-01-06T15:39:00Z")
As best I can see, it’s all about the right professional culture augmented by really comprehensive training. I never understand these cctv instances of police racing up to someone and leaping out the car. Or how they seemingly invite reaction. It looks like very poor training. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069/20 "2015-01-06T15:48:37Z")
I imagine the numbers are fairly similar (law enforcement vs general population). That being said, I will say that of the handful of LEOs I know, one is shady (sexual harassment, subject to more than a few Internal Affairs investigations, etc.) and another is just kind of a jerk (wanted to put urine in a squirt gun and shoot it at “Occupy” protesters. He even posted about wanting to do it on Facebook, while he was on duty, saying it was what he was going to do as soon as his shift was over. I also think part of it is the line of work & the conduct in their daily job. If Bob from Accounting is an asshole, he might turn in a report late or take my food out of the fridge and eat it. Hardly going to make the papers. If Frank from the 3rd District is a jerk, he might use excessive force or harass & intimidate the populace. That’s going to be in the news. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-people-do-you-think-are-jerks-bullies-what-percentage-of-police-officers/709069.md?page=2)