# What percentage of straight men would rape women under "ideal" circumstances? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688 "2010-01-12T18:34:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/101 "2010-01-15T00:48:41Z")
I voted the last option. I don’t think (since I don’t know), but I HOPE, it’s less than 1%. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/102 "2010-01-15T00:52:12Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > I voted the last option. I don’t think (since I don’t know), but I HOPE, it’s less than 1%. Did you not notice that the first option for both male and females was “Less than 1%”? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/103 "2010-01-15T01:27:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Did you not notice that the first option for both male and females was “Less than 1%”? Yes, its says THINK. I don’t “think” it, I don’t know what the actual percentage is. I only hope it’s so. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/104 "2010-01-15T01:31:09Z")
Oh whoops, and I’m a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/105 "2010-01-15T01:34:06Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > This sounds like you’re saying (not “you are saying”, but it sounds like you’re saying) that if we water down the definition of “rape” far enough we can include just about every sexual encounter as a “rape”. I mean c’mon… “mind games”? “Mind games” make a rape? > > That’s Dworkin-esque feminist philoslphy which I think (hope?) has been thoroughly debunked and discredited on this board. I do, yes, have a fairly wide concept of what constitutes a “rape”, or if you prefer I consider that there are behaviours which, while not being “rape” per se, are still fucked up, and still result in very crappy feelings for the not-really-rapee. And no, I don’t include just about every sexual encounter in there, far from it. Howeber, to borrow **Cat Fight** ’s excellent formulation, I believe men (and women) should be looking for nothing short of \*enthusiastic \*consent. Which is not that rare an occurence ;). ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/106 "2010-01-15T04:22:17Z")
I’m more fascinated by the 100% of dudes out there would rape. But i doubt we’ll ever find out more from that person. But jeez… And as for my previous question- i think others have pointed out just how tricky it becomes when it comes down to it for defining rape- is it rape in the man’s mind or the woman’s mind? What if yes means no and no mean no too? That’s why including all those scenarios i went with the 50%, I assumed for every guy that said “Well it’s seduction”, there was another guy out there who said “No, not going to even TRY to enter that can of worms” and just stays away. And then i threw in all the easier rapes into that wishy-washy area. So under the BROADEST terms of rape… i think it’s still a 50-50, with some committing it knowingly, and some perhaps unknowingly, and some just deluding themselves with the intentions or “misreading” the situation so it’s “idealized” for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/107 "2010-01-15T04:23:22Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Yes, its says THINK. I don’t “think” it, I don’t know what the actual percentage is. I only hope it’s so. The number 6% was thrown about earlier in the thread, whether that’s accurate or not, I’m not sure, but that’s certainly greater than 1% ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/108 "2010-01-15T04:35:50Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > So under the BROADEST terms of rape… i think it’s still a 50-50, with some committing it knowingly, and some perhaps unknowingly, and some just deluding themselves with the intentions or “misreading” the situation so it’s “idealized” for themselves. Under the “broadest terms”, it would be pretty close to 100% because there’s no way a man can avoid the risk of rape under those terms without lifelong celibacy. The “broadest terms” would include such definitions of rape as “because you are a man, she was so terrified of you that she lied and said yes when she meant no”. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/109 "2010-01-15T05:41:25Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > The number 6% was thrown about earlier in the thread, whether that’s accurate or not, I’m not sure, but that’s certainly greater than 1% Well, that’s sad and scary. Sorry if it’s a fine distinction, but to me, the word “think” in this case implies some knowledge rather than just a guess. Which is why I answered what I’d _hope_ to be true. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/110 "2010-01-15T06:10:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The “broadest terms” would include such definitions of rape as “because you are a man, she was so terrified of you that she lied and said yes when she meant no”. Which poses an interesting question. So, if as a Male, you realized this was the way of the world- that potentially EVERY female you meet could potentially pull out such a definition, where it could be construed in her mind as rape, and you have no real easy way of knowing for sure what the outcome would be pre-sleeping with her; would you then take the risk of having sex with a female? Would you blame the system as being flawed, or would you try to play along with those sorts of rules and just basically no sex until you had some way of ensuring certainty that the unknown female you were with would not react in such a way. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/111 "2010-01-15T06:26:52Z")
> [@](#): > > his sounds like you’re saying (not “you are saying”, but it sounds like you’re saying) that if we water down the definition of “rape” far enough we can include just about every sexual encounter as a “rape”. I mean c’mon… “mind games”? “Mind games” make a rape? > > That’s Dworkin-esque feminist philoslphy which I think (hope?) has been thoroughly debunked and discredited on this board. On the OTHER hand, I do think there are people who are so psychologically twisted that they manipulate other people into having sex. I do think there’s psychological rape. After all that’s what my jr high school gym teacher did, psychologically manipulated and raped those girls. You do have to admit that women in this society are conditioned to be man pleasers. They are taught to do what the man wants. A man who is very controlling and psychologically fucked up (manipulates emotions) could totally end up psychologically manipulating a woman into having sex without her really wanting it. (and the reverse also applies. I know someone (female) who psychologically manipunated a guy into having sex , so she could " heal" from a rape. (the guy is a Christian who believes in saving it iuntil marraige. I still think he doesn’t understand that she’s extremelly fucked up. But that’s a whole another thread) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/112 "2010-01-15T06:38:57Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Which poses an interesting question. > > So, if as a Male, you realized this was the way of the world- that potentially EVERY female you meet could potentially pull out such a definition, where it could be construed in her mind as rape, and you have no real easy way of knowing for sure what the outcome would be pre-sleeping with her; would you then take the risk of having sex with a female? > Would you blame the system as being flawed, or would you try to play along with those sorts of rules and just basically no sex until you had some way of ensuring certainty that the unknown female you were with would not react in such a way. That can’t be done, barring telepathy. Men have the choice of risking false allegations, or simply not having sex. And even that won’t keep a woman you’ve never had sex with or even met from making such an allegation. > [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > You do have to admit that women in this society are conditioned to be man pleasers. They are taught to do what the man wants. That’s clearly a matter of opinion. As far as I can tell, women in our society are generally taught to be “man users” far more than “man pleasers”. This isn’t the 50s. Far more women were raised on “men are pigs” than “do what your man wants”. And no; I don’t like the latter any more than the former. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/113 "2010-01-15T16:28:40Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > I have a difficult time comprehending how a rapist maintains an erection when their victim is showing signs of repulsion and fear. I think being wired in such a way that these things don’t matter is pathological and limited to a relatively small minority of men. Some men are turned on by that, but if he can’t get an erection, women can be forced to perform other sex acts that don’t involve penetration, or they use objects to penetrate her. Rape does not always end in climax for the male, either. I have a hard time thinking the percentage is as low as some people are guessing (under 10%) when in other places in the world it is so much higher. Surely this is due to social circumstances/increased opportunity. What else could cause that? It’s not like they all have some sort of genetic mutation that makes them go around raping. They either think it is ok, or they don’t care, plus the social stigma/punishment for doing so is not there. That makes me think if social circumstances changed here, rape would increase here also. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/114 "2010-01-15T16:42:07Z")
> [@Velma](#): > > Some men are turned on by that, but if he can’t get an erection, women can be forced to perform other sex acts that don’t involve penetration, or they use objects to penetrate her. Rape does not always end in climax for the male, either. What’s the motive, other than sadism and a desire to shame or humiliate, for a man to rape women with objects? Most men lack a strong desire to hurt or humiliate others for fun. Some men of course love this, but they are I would say a distinct minority. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time thinking the percentage is as low as some people are guessing (under 10%) when in other places in the world it is so much higher. Surely this is due to social circumstances/increased opportunity. What else could cause that? It’s not like they all have some sort of genetic mutation that makes them go around raping. They either think it is ok, or they don’t care, plus the social stigma/punishment for doing so is not there. That makes me think if social circumstances changed here, rape would increase here also. You are conflating I think two concepts: 1. Positive sanctions for certain behaviour (police, courts, jails, social ostracism, etc.) and 2. Social, educational and cultural circumstances that mold attitudes within individuals towards those around them (in this case, specifically, the attitudes of men towards sex). Though naturally the two are linked, dissapearance of the former would not of necessity change the latter. If the police suddenly disappeared, men in our society would still be carrying the exact same social conditioning, education, and attitudes that they had before, when the police were around. The unfortunate fact is that those places lacking in sanctions for rape also tend to be places lacking the social attitudes and education imposed in most places in the first world. If the hypothetical is that the _sanctions_ are removed, but men in this society are basically the same, that would produce a very different result than that observed in places that lack such sanctions today. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/115 "2010-01-15T19:49:42Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I have to ask, those of you who answered 50% and upwards, do you really, _really_ think that given a crowd of 4 men, that two of them are potential rapists? Holy cow fuck! What sort of demographic environment do you all live in? One with men in it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/116 "2010-01-15T20:44:37Z")
> [@Velma](#): > > Some men are turned on by that, but if he can’t get an erection, women can be forced to perform other sex acts that don’t involve penetration, or they use objects to penetrate her. Rape does not always end in climax for the male, either. > > I have a hard time thinking the percentage is as low as some people are guessing (under 10%) when in other places in the world it is so much higher. Surely this is due to social circumstances/increased opportunity. What else could cause that? It’s not like they all have some sort of genetic mutation that makes them go around raping. They either think it is ok, or they don’t care, plus the social stigma/punishment for doing so is not there. That makes me think if social circumstances changed here, rape would increase here also. I should have added the condition to the OP that I meant _in your area_. I live in Memphis, Tennessee, in the United States; **Mr. Dibble** , whose estimate was a wee bit higher than me, lives in South Africa, where rape is far more common. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/117 "2010-01-15T20:47:27Z")
I picked 11 to 25 because I think I know that we humans have a very significant dark side. Of course, I wouldn’t be one of them. I’m not enough of a shithead to do something like that to a human being who doesn’t want it done to them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/118 "2010-01-17T09:29:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I should have added the condition to the OP that I meant _in your area_. I live in Memphis, Tennessee, in the United States; **Mr. Dibble** , whose estimate was a wee bit higher than me, lives in South Africa, where rape is far more common. I wouldn’t say **far** more common. [Stats](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#UN_Statistics) I could find would make it that SA has about 4x the number of reported rapes per capita compared to the US (and \< 2x compared to Canada:dubious:), but also note 1. the US is 3rd in the world on that statshot 2. the actual number of rapes in the US is almost double that of SA 3. I’m reasonably sure the US rape profile is regionally heterogenous i.e you may or may not live in a higher-rape-incidence area (From the little I know about Tennessee demographics & culture, I’m inclined to say “higher”) 4. Even in South Africa, the incidence of rape is such that it isn’t spread evenly, demographically. Someone has a much greater likelihood of being raped in a township than a gated suburb, for instance. HAving said that, the numbers do gel with my naive understanding - in the US, around 1 in 6 women have been raped or had an attempt. Here, My experience and the stats seem to say 1 in 3. So your basic point is right, but if I were a woman, I still wouldn’t feel much safer in the US (compared to, say, Denmark, Italy or Japan) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/119 "2010-01-17T10:01:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > What’s the motive, other than sadism and a desire to shame or humiliate, for a man to rape women with objects? Most men lack a strong desire to hurt or humiliate others for fun. Some men of course love this, but they are I would say a distinct minority. All rapes are not done for funsies, many are done to make a point, be it a racial one ; a sex orientation one (i.e. “rape the dyke”); or to create, cement or enforce a social domination link. For instance, I could absolutely see a pimp raping one of his girls with a broom just to show her who’s boss. Or a father his daughter, an employer his employee, a police officer his recalcitrant perp etc… There’s also the case of gang rape, where humiliation and sadism are arguably more important in the mob’s mind than the pleasure of each individual rapist. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688/120 "2010-01-17T11:54:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > All rapes are not done for funsies, many are done to make a point, be it a racial one ; a sex orientation one (i.e. “rape the dyke”); or to create, cement or enforce a social domination link. For instance, I could absolutely see a pimp raping one of his girls with a broom just to show her who’s boss. Or a father his daughter, an employer his employee, a police officer his recalcitrant perp etc… > There’s also the case of gang rape, where humiliation and sadism are arguably more important in the mob’s mind than the pleasure of each individual rapist. I thought that rape was always about power, not sex? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-percentage-of-straight-men-would-rape-women-under-ideal-circumstances/524688.md?page=7)