# What piece would you recommend as a 'starter opera' for a newcomer to Opera? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926 "2009-03-01T22:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/41 "2009-03-03T00:18:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Ring is much more like a film or a novel to me than other opera, of which I admit I’ve not heard much. It’s funny you mention this because that was one of my reasons for thinking of Strauss Elektra (or Salome) as a great starter- I think in terms of length and dramatic pacing (super fast, no stalls at all), I think it resembles a film, much more than the Ring (what film is that long? BTW it also suffers from those LOOOONG parts where someone will do a brief quarter hour recap of the last opera [Last week on the Ring!]) or any of those other ‘good’ starters (Puccini, Verdi, etc) I do think that the Marriage of Figaro has movie speed pacing, but it’s just too long for a newcomer. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/42 "2009-03-03T00:34:20Z")
> [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > BTW it also suffers from those LOOOONG parts where someone will do a brief quarter hour recap of the last opera [Last week on the Ring!]) You see? Wagner was ahead of his time in many ways! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/43 "2009-03-03T01:53:19Z")
> [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > Can anyone comment on the (in)appropriateness of Elektra or Salome as a starter opera? You’re considering it from the point of view of plot and character. But from a musical point of view, it’s not for beginners. You need something with accessible music and hit tunes. That ain’t Strauss. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/44 "2009-03-03T02:04:06Z")
> [@Bamboo\_Boy](#): > > Carmen seems to come out on top- I can see why. But I guess I STILL think Elektra would be a better starter…Maybe I’m nutz. Make it a double bill: Carmen, Elektra. I’m going to opera hell, aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/45 "2009-03-03T02:22:45Z")
Is the story that at the priemer of Ein HeldenLieben (however you spell it) a woman told him, “That is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard!” and Strauss replied, “Yes, I know.” true? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/46 "2009-03-03T12:29:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You’re considering it from the point of view of plot and character. But from a musical point of view, it’s not for beginners. You need something with accessible music and hit tunes. That ain’t Strauss. I can only say I SWEAR to you I am not considering it from the point of view of plot and character. I’m mostly thinking about the PACING, not the content of the plot or the point of view of the character I know it sounds crazy but I really think there is less to ‘decode’ in Strauss’s music (than Puccini or Verdi, fx). ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/47 "2009-03-03T16:07:47Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > If your friend has an appreciation for humor, one can always ease into the opera genre with one of the light-hearted oeuvres, for example, Die Fledermaus, or Barber of Seville. I saw a production of Fledermaus with Dom DeLuise as the jailer in Act III; he damn near brought the house down. If I saw Barber of Seville I’d be thinking: _There, you’re nice and cleeeean, Although your face, looks, like it, went through a ma-chine!_ ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/48 "2009-03-03T18:19:26Z")
What, no love out there for **Don Giovanni**? ---
**Author:** ![Seeker\_of\_Truth\_and\_Beauty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Seeker\_of\_Truth\_and\_Beauty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seeker_of_Truth_and_Beauty)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/49 "2009-03-03T18:32:58Z")
> [@beckwall](#): > > What, no love out there for **Don Giovanni**? As an _introduction_ to opera? You cannot be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/50 "2009-03-03T18:59:19Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Which is why I think G&S don’t qualify as opera. Loads of fun, yes, and classics in their own right, but I don’t think they make it to the level of opera. Not meant as a slam on G&S: They’re just a different art form (with puppy love!) Anyone who thinks G&S isn’t opera should take a better look. There are moments when their parodies of grand opera step over the line and become the very art they are lampooning. Take _H.M.S. Pinafore_, the fluffiest of the fluff. You have mock paeans to patriotism (which the dullwitted insist on taking seriously). You have the exaggerated stuffiness of the upper crust and the overly stoic acceptance of place among the lower class. And then you have Josephine’s second act aria, which is a brutally real and unvarnished image of what life will be like for an aristocratic lady married to a common tar, sacrificing the luxury to which she has grown accustomed for the squalid slums that will no doubt be her fate if she embraces “true love.” Not to mention the fact that it’s damned hard to sing (or so I’ve been told – I’m a bass-baritone). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/51 "2009-03-03T19:16:49Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Not to mention the fact that it’s damned hard to sing (or so I’ve been told – I’m a bass-baritone). It’s kind of a bitch to conduct, as well. But loads of fun. Take something a little less light – Yeoman. It’s the only one I know of that’s more tragedy than comedy. It ends with a major character dying (by some interpretations) of a broken heart – and an egotistical jerkwad getting all the girls. It’s really a pretty dark show, as lighthearted musical comedies go. ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/52 "2009-03-13T10:33:55Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > If I saw Barber of Seville I’d be thinking: > > _There, you’re nice and cleeeean, > Although your face, looks, like it, went through a ma-chine!_ Hahaha, me too! But that’s just the overture. The music is sparkling and engaging once the curtain goes up and it starts for real… ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926/53 "2009-03-13T18:48:06Z")
It’s a tough question, because I don’t think there’s any one opera that sums up the art form, nor any one composer, period, nationality or style. So, part of the challenge is to expose someone to an art form which seems to have a binary response - you love it or you hate it, with not much in the middle. Not to answer a question with a question, but what sort of classical music does your friend know and like? Only a couple of composers? Lots? Different periods or only one? I’m asking because it may be a better match to figure out how to see an opera by a composer that you know your friend enjoys. Elektra or Salome? Well, they’re strong dramatic pieces, but even for Strauß they’re kinda heavy going. It’s like Wozzeck - Wozzeck is also only about 90 minutes long, but it feels a lot longer because of how intense the musical and dramatic journey is. If you like it, that’s a good thing. If you don’t, well, I don’t know, you walk out, I suppose. Of the Mozart operas, I’d go more for Marriage of Figaro or Don Giovanni. Magic Flute is rather heavy going - the plot has that weird switch and bait of Good vs. Evil, and Sarastro is just a crashing bore. Don Giovanni is more interesting if you can just skip all the bits involving the goodie-goodies, but of course, that’s not the point. Peter Grimes is a good recommendation; may I throw in Albert Herring? If it’s directed well, it’s a very funny satire of British village life, and the whole idea of the protagonist getting drunk and telling all these pretentious busy bodies exactly what he thinks of them all is priceless. I do think you’re much better off to go see something live and in person - it’s so much more impressive to have the distance between you and the stage and to see how the whole picture unfolds. I’ve seen lots of opera on DVD and it just leaves me cold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-piece-would-you-recommend-as-a-starter-opera-for-a-newcomer-to-opera/487926.md?page=2)