# What plagues have ended or vastly altered civilizations **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682 "2013-09-25T23:58:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682/41 "2013-09-26T19:54:17Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > This isn’t right. For one thing, the Angles and Saxons were not converted until a couple of centuries after the conquest. The non-orthodox version you’re probably thinking of is Pelagianism, but other than its founder’s being British, there’s really no reason to assume his beliefs were widespread in Britain. For one thing, the British converted a couple of centuries before he was born. And, IIRC from my ongoing reading of J.B. Bury’s _The Cambridge Medieval History_, the priest who first evangelized Britain was sent there personally by the then-current Pope (Gregory?), and I think at the behest of Constantine himself. Popes weren’t in the habit of sending known heretics on evangelizing missions. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682/42 "2013-09-26T20:00:42Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > As I say, I don’t recall the details. > It may have been one of Daniel Boorstin’s books where he was talking about how the various calendars and feasts (in this case Easter?) were determined. The queen, wife of the local king had one point of view and converted the kindom(s) to her beliefs, and the invaders had a different belief. That sounds better. 2nd century: first Christians in Britain 3rd & 4th century: Britons adopt Christianity 5th century: Roman withdrawal, followed by Saxon invasion. Plague. 6th century: Justinian plague\*, 544–547\*\* 7th century: conversion of the Saxons in England, Synod of Whitby (date of Easter) 8th century: Bede writes - Which does seem to be the same as the Black Death: [see here](http://bonesdontlie.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/plague-of-justinian-the-older-brother-of-the-black-death/)) \*\*544 in Ireland as _blefed_ or _buidechair_ or _buide Chonnaill_ or _crón Chonnaill_—they had trouble keeping the terminology straight. 547 in Wales, as _Y Fad Felen_. This might not be the Justinian plague, but the timing is right. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682/43 "2013-09-26T21:20:56Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I agree about the value of labour, but why would absolute wealth increase? After the 17c plagues in GB there is documentary evidence of how some named individuals, previously poor and tied to the land and to landlords, were able to prosper and start their own enterprises. This was a social revolution that led directly to land reform and the transfer of power from the church and the nobility to the previously peasant classes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682/44 "2013-09-27T11:05:18Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > That doesn’t have to mean soap and water especially since I don’t think soap was invented yet. Soap was invented in ancient Babylon, and [certainly was around](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap#Medieval_Europe)during the Black Death. ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682/45 "2013-09-29T00:38:58Z")
Another good book on this subject is Plagues and Peoples, by William McNeill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-plagues-have-ended-or-vastly-altered-civilizations/669682.md?page=2)