# What points are disputed from Al Franken's "Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2000, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268 "2000-12-19T00:44:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/1 "2000-12-19T00:44:02Z")
I’ve heard that some dispute the accuracy of some statements from Al Franken’s book “Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot.” Besides the fact that he isn’t really so fat anymore, what points are in dispute? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/2 "2000-12-19T00:55:51Z")
I dispute that Operation Chickenhawk took place. At least I would, if I could stop laughing long enough. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/3 "2000-12-19T01:12:46Z")
Well, first off, Rush Limbaugh is _not_ Darth Vader!! Vader’s a helluva lot cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Fletch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/919ad9/32.png) [@Fletch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fletch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/4 "2000-12-19T01:53:37Z")
Is his real name “Rush Limbaugh”? That might be the only point with the possibility of a dispute. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/5 "2000-12-19T02:34:49Z")
Kinda depends on what your definition of “is” is. He may no longer be fat. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/6 "2000-12-19T04:13:04Z")
Big, Fat and Idiot are in constant dispute. Rush, I believe has been disproven as Mr. Limbaugh cannot break the 3 minute mile barrier. It has been concluded, with much scientific backing, that Limbaugh is not some type of cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/7 "2000-12-19T04:27:25Z")
While not arguing against the Limbaugh thesis I might argue that Al Franken isn’t funny or talented at all. He might even be jealous of Rush’s popularity, popularity that has so far left Al Franken in the dust. Because let’s face it. Al Franken isn’t good enough. He’s not smart enough. And doggone it, people don’t like him. On second thought, without showing partisanship, I don’t think Limbaugh’s an idiot. In fact he’s pretty smart. You would have to be to manipulate an audience and maintain popularity over the time period that he has. I think Limbaugh knows exactly what he is doing, and enjoys the role. So where does that leave us? Well, Rush isn’t big and fat. He’s not an idiot. Franken on the other hand is big and fat, and unsuccessful, **and** pretty much an idiot (or do you not remember daily affirmation, or the Franken-cam?) I am not even sure we can call Franken sincere. Doesn’t his book capitalize on a perceived liberal backlash against the dittoheads? Isn’t he trying to pull off a Limbaughesque coup, and set himself up as the Rush of the liberals? Sadly, IMHO, he lacks the panache to pull it off. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/8 "2000-12-19T06:41:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > > Well, Rush isn’t big and fat. He’s not an idiot. Franken on the other hand is big and fat, and unsuccessful, Unsuccessful? By what standards exactly. Anyway, I am willing to grant you that your comedian O’Rourke can sometimes be funny if you are willing to grant me that Franken can! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/9 "2000-12-19T13:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jshore \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > > > > Well, Rush isn’t big and fat. He’s not an idiot. Franken on the other hand is big and fat, and unsuccessful, > > Unsuccessful? By what standards exactly. > > Anyway, I am willing to grant you that your comedian O’Rourke can sometimes be funny if you are willing to grant me that Franken can! \*\* As a moderate, I would like to point out that P.J. O’Rourke actually is funny, and Al Franken is not. It’s not their beliefs or party affliliation; O’Rourke just has a touch for comedy Franken lacks. ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/10 "2000-12-19T14:56:04Z")
The book is satire–it doesn’t have to be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![diamud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@diamud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diamud)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/11 "2000-12-19T15:18:01Z")
I think Franken is funny sometimes. Like when he was reporting on Desert Storm with his own mobile satellite transmitter on his hat, pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/12 "2000-12-19T15:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KSO \* > \*\*The book is satire–it doesn’t have to be accurate. \*\* I think both Rush and Franken should answer for any lies they make. Rush touts himself as a (liberal) bullshit detector, which precludes him being cut any slack for being an entertainer, in my book. The same goes for Franken. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/13 "2000-12-19T16:06:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Franken on the other hand is big and fat Um, unless the man has grown 6 inches and put on 50 pounds since I last saw him on TV, he ain’t big and fat. “Scrawny” comes to mind. Sua ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/14 "2000-12-19T16:27:37Z")
Gee, it’d be nice to see someone address the OP; other than to the title of the book, can dittoheads take specific exception to anything Franken said about Limbaugh? Of course, this means they’d have to actually _read_ the book. Since I’m not sure many dittoheads get their information from a text medium, I doubt we’ll see that. Obviously, I’m in the minority on this board, but I’d just like to say that I find Al Franken hilarious. I always have and most likely always will. PJ O’Rourke has his moments, too. And Rush is, in fact, an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![ben901](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@ben901](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ben901)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/15 "2000-12-19T16:33:23Z")
\*\*Uh… the book was just a joke. It wasn’t supposed to be a textbook for politcal science majors or anything. Franken, by the way, was Saturday Night Live’s head writer during the Belushi/Murphy/Martin era, and I thought the show was pretty funny then. The only thing that I ever found funny about Limbaugh was the fact that he was such a pig, and now, like SNL, he has deteriorated into just another spectacle I used to laugh at… ~~ben901~~ ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/16 "2000-12-19T17:03:08Z")
You’re not going to get cogent argument out of the Ditto Legion. That’s one of the first things Franken pointed out in his book: “Rush Limbaugh’s dittoheads feel they are the most informed about current issues and are actually the _least_ informed. Psychologists call it ‘psuedo-certainty.’ I call it ‘being a fucking moron.’” -Al Franken, citing a contemporary, and presumably authentic, psychological study. From there, Franken goes on to point out Limbaugh’s reluctance to appear in live debate, to invite rebuttal, or to appear before unselected audiences. The guy only preaches to the choir, and that’s what made him such a large target for Franken’s satire. You can tear Limbaugh to shreds by exposing his inaccuracies and flat-out inventions, and the reaction of Limbaugh and his supporters is often flat denial coupled with _ad hominem_ attacks, rather than structured argument. Franken merely turned the guns around on the dittoheads, coupling accurate (and embarassing) personal information about Limbaugh with wildly fantastic fiction, just as Rush does to his targets. The result, in my opinion, is both appropriate and hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Gurd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gurd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gurd)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/17 "2000-12-19T17:17:54Z")
I think most of the intelligent conservatives don’t argue with Franken’s main premise of the book and have stopped listening to and/or defending Rush. As far as any specific points to disprove, Franken’s book seems very well researched and based on very solid facts. So basically, Rush used distorted or even wrong data to support his often hypocritical arguments, and even most conservatives don’t take him seriously any more. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BunnyGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyGirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/18 "2000-12-19T18:15:44Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s not smart enough. Yeah, those Harvard graduates sure are dumb! Personally, I read the book and found it to be a hoot; I mean, laugh-out-loud funny…and I’m a _Republican_. I also like O’Rourke too. ---
**Author:** ![jumblemind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jumblemind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jumblemind)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/19 "2000-12-19T18:36:48Z")
Indeed, Franken is incredibly smart, which is why I think most of his pointed comedy doesn’t have the universal appeal available in the slapstick delivery of people like Bill Murray or Steve Martin. As far as the book goes, it’s not as if Franken was trying to give a treatise on absolute political truth. He’s obviously extremely liberal in his politics and isn’t credited in rational circles any more than Limbaugh. I think his book served a good purpose as a(n admittedly unmatched) counterweight to the Rush media juggernaut. I mean, Franken’s career has been comedy and satire. This Rush stuff was just another aspect, not some attempt at an elusive power trip. He may wish he had self-proclaimed unmatched influence and importance, but I seriously doubt it. And I think he’s damned funny, to boot. (The Stuart Smalley phenomenon excluded, of course.;)) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268/20 "2000-12-19T21:36:25Z")
I’m pretty conservative, and I think Al Franken is extremely funny. So funny, that I bought that “Big Fat Idiot” book way back when. I haven’t read it in many years, but my recollection was that the first chapter was a comedy schtick making fun of Limbaugh (which I thought was very funny), and the rest of the book was just a liberal diatribe, with no references to humor or Limbaugh or big fat idiots. It was like he had written a political book, and realized “As Liberal As I Wanna Spew” was unlikely to sell, so he wrote a couple of funny pages and changed the title. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-points-are-disputed-from-al-frankens-rush-limbaugh-is-a-big-fat-idiot/46268.md?page=2)