# What post-War art do you think will "stand the test of time"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257 "2014-01-20T05:20:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/41 "2014-01-21T02:27:55Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > And I’m thinking Tolkien, as well. Pre-War!!! Clarification: _The Hobbit_ is from 1937, the trilogy is from 1954-1955… ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/42 "2014-01-21T14:05:29Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Thanks for reminding me about Ligeti; I’ve been meaning to check into his stuff. > > But _all_ these guys were basically established pre-War and certainly by my new arbitrary cutoff date of 1960. Barber’s string quartet with the famous adagio is from 1936. > > Fame and legacy tend to work based on “brand.” If you can establish the brand, your work will continue to be “input” into the system even after it is not taking new applicants, so to speak. > > If a crude, poorly written play by Shakespeare were discovered next week, it would be huge news reported by the major media, performances would be put on immediately, and so on. In contrast, if a masterpiece by Ben Jonson were similarly discovered, it would not be big news. Further, there is no way any new author could write a play so good that it would get as much press as a crude Shakespeare work. Shakespeare has “brand.” (I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve it, but the way such brands work does not always lead to justice.) > > That’s why I emphasize when these guys got their start. They were able to establish their brands when _new_ classical music was a part of mainstream life. Perhaps highbrow mainstream life, but it wasn’t just academics. > > Thomas _died_ in 1953. Cummings is basically a pre-War poet and died in 1962. Larkin was born in 1922. I would say he was never really famous among the masses in the first place. > > Let’s keep in mind that we just have _not_ produced a Dickens in our era–someone who sells a lot of books and is considered “great” in his or her own time. Some of the above, perhaps all, seem like writers only academics will know about in 2114. I really don’t think anyone is going to give a shit about Margaret Atwood then. Or Jonathon Franzen, for that matter. They haven’t established the big brand and cultural cachet that people were able to do up until around 1960. > > Beckett was born in 1909, and _Waiting for Godot_ came out in 1953. I don’t think he qualifies. I can’t comment on the others. In your OP you said: “What art from **1945-2014** holds up?”. Now, you reject my examples because you have decided on a new cutoff date. Sorry but I have a feeling that you started this thread so that we would approve of your… prejudice? I’m also a bit puzzled by your fixation on Dickens. Why do you keep on refering to him? Do you think all artists should have the same profile as his for their art to be valid? If so, then goodbye **Bach** for instance as Gyrate pointed out. That doesn’t make sense. Regarding the examples I provided. **Ligeti** started writing in the late 40s but only hit it big in the early 60s. **Dutilleux** started quite a bit earlier but his stature only started growing in the 70s. They fit IMHO, unless you move the goalposts again. **Perec** is an example of a post WWII writer who was both well-known and critically acclaimed. Still is by the way: > [@](#): > > Georges Perec’s Life: A User’s Manuel [La Vie Mode d’Emploi]. Simply one of the most brilliant novels written in the last 50 years. Ingenious, fascinating, creative, historical, devious, intriguing and unique, a great writer from the OLIPO group, widely read in the US, well in NYC anyway, contradicting this article. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25299446](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25299446) @Gyrate Sorry about **Adams** but I must confess that I’m not very familiar with his music. I’ve only listened to _The Dharma at Big Sur_ and, while I certainly enjoyed it, I cannot say that I found it particularly great or even memorable. I’ll try and listen to a few more pieces of his in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/43 "2014-01-22T02:30:28Z")
I think comics will have legs and that graphic art will be compared favorably to painting. As such, there will _have_ to be a set of authors/artists of historical interest. Gaiman has a decent shot. Frank Miller will be a little obscure. Tezuka will be remembered (along with his foundation). In anime, Hideaki Anno will remain a name. New Yorker cartoons may or may not persist… I wonder whether the business model can survive. Architecture. Hm. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/44 "2014-01-23T06:38:45Z")
I sing in a choir that does lots of contemporary compositions, and I’ve heard it claimed that the most “popular” (among fairly serious classical choirs) a capella choral composition from the past few decades is the **Ave Maria** by **Franz Biebl**. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/45 "2014-01-23T10:38:44Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I think comics will have legs and that graphic art will be compared favorably to painting. As such, there will _have_ to be a set of authors/artists of historical interest. Gaiman has a decent shot. Frank Miller will be a little obscure. I was thinking the same. Alan Moore has a huge oeuvre (fnar fnar), much of which is well-known and popular (horrible film adaptations sort of helping, sort of hindering). There are a number of other graphic novels included in lists of must-read books including Art Spiegelman’s _Maus_ that will be less popular but remain critically well-regarded. > [@](#): > > Architecture. Hm. Lots of famous post-war architects- **I M Pei** , **Frank Gehry** , arguably \*\*Daniel Libeskind \*\*(although I agree with the view that Libeskind is a second-rate Gehry), \*\*Norman Foster \*\*etc etc. And of course buildings tend to endure and be extremely visible. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I sing in a choir that does lots of contemporary compositions, and I’ve heard it claimed that the most “popular” (among fairly serious classical choirs) a capella choral composition from the past few decades is the **Ave Maria** by **Franz Biebl**. It’s a lovely piece but again, it’s one short simple motet. There’s not much ‘there’ there. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/46 "2014-01-23T18:37:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s a lovely piece but again, it’s one short simple motet. There’s not much ‘there’ there. But the same is true of the Pachelbel Canon. I don’t think that the Biebl Ave Maria is going to be particularly familiar to the general public, but I think it’s at least possible that it will be somewhat regularly performed by the choirs of the future, assuming there are choirs of the future who sing the same kind of repertoire as the choirs that currently sing it, if you see what I’m saying. I feel like it’s got at least a good shot as any other choral piece written recently, which I believe is the point of the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/47 "2014-01-23T18:51:31Z")
I’m surprised that, in a thread specifically about post-war art, no one has mentioned television. It’s the medium that defined the second half of the twentieth century, and will likely remain ubiquitous for the foreseeable future. We already have plenty of examples of shows that have maintained a degree of popularity for fifty years or more, so there’s a good pool of candidates to pick from for long term endurance, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/48 "2014-01-23T23:59:25Z")
The Original _King Kong_ will not lose it’s power to fascinate. Tolkien? Yes, I think so. Lovecraft? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/49 "2014-01-24T00:50:08Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The Original _King Kong_ will not lose it’s power to fascinate. > > Tolkien? Yes, I think so. > > Lovecraft? Yes. All Pre-War. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257/50 "2014-01-24T01:12:11Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The Original _King Kong_ will not lose it’s power to fascinate. Hasn’t it already? How many 20-year-olds have seen it? I’m 40 and I’ve never seen it, although I’ve seen it parodied infinitely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-post-war-art-do-you-think-will-stand-the-test-of-time/679257.md?page=2)