# What presidents were mentally unstable while president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656 "2009-06-22T22:37:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/61 "2009-06-25T04:08:01Z")
Googling around for a cite on the above, I [found myself](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462934) in a previous discussion on the exact same topic. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/62 "2009-06-25T07:28:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Recall too that Reagan used to make a LOT of claims that weren’t true – for example, claiming he had been in Europe, filming the concentration camps. (He wasn’t, during WWII, he was in Hollywood, making training films) I liked the one where he said there was no one, or very few, left in Germany who had been active members of the Nazi Party. Duh – if we still had WWII vets, so would they! ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/63 "2009-06-25T07:42:32Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > I liked the one where he said there was no one, or very few, left in Germany who had been active members of the Nazi Party. Duh – if we still had WWII vets, so would they! A Wehrmacht veteran is not the same as a Nazi. (ETA: in the vast majority of cases, I believe. Even if there was some kind of mandated oath and nominal party membership–which I don’t believe there was–that doesn’t make Wehrmacht soldiers into active Nazis any more than Constantine’s Roman legions were active Christians.) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/64 "2009-06-25T08:18:12Z")
Okay, forget the veteran bit then. Point is, he made it sound as if they’d all died of old age by the '80s. But I had relatives still thriving who had served in WWII, so how much older could Party members have been? And if you include the Hitler Youth, that’s even more who were “alive and participating in any way,” as Ronnie put it. (Heck, our current Pope was a Hitler Youth.) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/65 "2009-06-25T09:35:28Z")
I think this quote on Iran Contra demonstrates Reagan had lost touch with reality: “A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.” – Ronald Reagan, admitting the Iran-Contra Affair, March 1987. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/66 "2009-06-25T13:40:46Z")
OK - I’m pretty sure we won’t get an actual cite for when Reagan might have first shown signs of Alzheimers. However, we can put together a very rough time frame. From [here](http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/08/science/doctor-s-world-reagan-and-alzheimer-s-following-path-his-mother-traveled.html?pagewanted=1), we see that he was diagnosed almost 6 years after leaving office. Now, there is no way of knowing how long before that he may have shown symptoms. However, from [here](http://news.healingwell.com/index.php?p=news1&id=531624), we can see that the typical length of time between onset of symptoms and diagnosis is around 2 years. So, while certainly not definitive, it appears that he may not have shown signs of Alzheimers until as many as 4 years after he left office. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/67 "2009-06-25T14:41:46Z")
Except we SAW the signs all during his second term. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/68 "2009-06-25T14:59:55Z")
Gee, challenging an unsourced allegation on the SDMB. I wonder if that has ever happened before? Maybe we could come up with a catch phrase for it. Blight? Might? Height? _:shrugs:_ Keep repeating it. Eventually, you won’t need evidence. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/69 "2009-06-25T15:03:57Z")
Keep denying it. The truth was obvious. I don’t see why you think it’s such an insult anyway. It’s not like it was any kind of moral failure on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/70 "2009-06-25T15:06:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Except we SAW the signs all during his second term. I certainly agree we SAW signs of something. I just don’t know what that was. Could have been alzheimers - could have been something else. In fact, Reagan himself was worried about sinility, since it ran in the [family](http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/08/science/doctor-s-world-reagan-and-alzheimer-s-following-path-his-mother-traveled.html): > [@NY Times](#): > > Before Ronald Reagan was elected President in 1980, he said publicly he wanted to be watched for senility, in part because his mother, Nellie, had been senile for several years before her death at the age of 80. Now I think it’s impressive that anyone can handle that job at the age Reagan did. But I also think we saw some signs of something - sinility, alzheimers, whatever. And add me to the list of people wondering why it’s apostasy to even hint that Saint Ronnie may have had a random illness. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/71 "2009-06-25T15:29:02Z")
> [@Dragwyr](#): > > Didn’t Ronald Reagan have mild symptoms of Alzheimer’s in the last part of his presidency? According to a strong Democratic activist and amateur fiction writier of my acquaintance, who was intrigued by and greatly respected Reagan the man, while opposed to many of his policies (and used him as a background character in his fiction), this was not the case. His Alzheimer’s was barely detectable during his time in office, and only became sweriously symptomatic well after he left office. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/72 "2009-06-25T15:58:14Z")
That doesn’t really contradict what Dragwyr said. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/73 "2009-06-25T16:20:16Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > I certainly agree we SAW signs of something. I just don’t know what that was. Could have been alzheimers - could have been something else. In fact, Reagan himself was worried about sinility, since it ran in the [family](http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/08/science/doctor-s-world-reagan-and-alzheimer-s-following-path-his-mother-traveled.html) Isn’t _senility_ just an old-fashioned euphemism for _Alzheimer’s_? At any rate, the OP acknowledges that most mental defects of presidents wouldn’t be made official, so what we’re left with is speculation. I speculate Reagan was in early-stage Alzheimer’s by 1986. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/74 "2009-06-25T16:58:56Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Isn’t _senility_ just an old-fashioned euphemism for _Alzheimer’s_? No, senility is another word for dementia, of which Alzheimer’s is one type. > [@bup](#): > > At any rate, the OP acknowledges that most mental defects of presidents wouldn’t be made official, so what we’re left with is speculation. I speculate Reagan was in early-stage Alzheimer’s by 1986. Cue Shodan freaking out. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/75 "2009-06-25T18:06:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think this quote on Iran Contra demonstrates Reagan had lost touch with reality: > > “A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.” > – Ronald Reagan, admitting the Iran-Contra Affair, March 1987. The fact that he claimed to have forgotten something of that magnitude it is quite frightening. **Shodan** – no one said the guy was stupid. We’re saying he might have been sick. THAT is not an insult, and to assume that it is, WOULD be an insult to those who DO suffer from dementia and Alzheimers. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/76 "2009-06-25T19:27:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [QUOTE=madmonk28] > > I think this quote on Iran Contra demonstrates Reagan had lost touch with reality: > > “A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.” > – Ronald Reagan, admitting the Iran-Contra Affair, March 1987. The fact that he claimed to have forgotten something of that magnitude it is quite frightening. [/QUOTE] There’s another way to take that quote, you realize. Not to get all Clintonesque, but it depends on the meanings of the words _I_ and _my_. It’s conceivable that Mr. Reagan meant, “I would not have chosen to trade arms for hostages, but persons who work for me did so using my authority but without my knowledge, and I am taking responsibility for their actions rather than hanging them out to dry.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/77 "2009-06-25T20:18:53Z")
If he hadn’t been such a habitual indulger of Truthiness, that interpretation might be reasonable. But there it is, in its purest form. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/78 "2009-06-25T20:37:28Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > According to a strong Democratic activist and amateur fiction writier of my acquaintance, who was intrigued by and greatly respected Reagan the man, while opposed to many of his policies **(and used him as a background character in his fiction**), this was not the case. His Alzheimer’s was barely detectable during his time in office, and only became sweriously symptomatic well after he left office. Has he been published? Because I’d be interested in reading that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/79 "2009-06-25T20:38:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > There’s another way to take that quote, you realize. Not to get all Clintonesque, but it depends on the meanings of the words _I_ and _my_. It’s conceivable that Mr. Reagan meant, “I would not have chosen to trade arms for hostages, but persons who work for me did so using my authority but without my knowledge, and I am taking responsibility for their actions rather than hanging them out to dry.” From what I remember, he literally did say that he’d _forgotten_ he’d given the approval. Amazingly enough, I think people generally believed him. I think **I** believed him. It seemed perfectly plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656/80 "2009-06-25T20:43:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > From what I remember, he literally did say that he’d _forgotten_ he’d given the approval. Amazingly enough, I think people generally believed him. I think **I** believed him. It seemed perfectly plausible. Note that I’m not saying that is what President Reagan meant–only that there are alternate interpretations. I don’t recall the speech. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-presidents-were-mentally-unstable-while-president/500656.md?page=5)