# What problem is keyless ignition trying to solve? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801 "2012-09-25T17:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FoundWaldo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@FoundWaldo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoundWaldo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/41 "2012-09-26T01:48:11Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Now that we’ve sorted out keyless ignition, what’s the point to electronic parking brakes? It always engages fully, instead of 1/4 when my wife doesn’t pull the lever up far enough. ---
**Author:** ![Beelzebubba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Beelzebubba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beelzebubba)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/42 "2012-09-26T03:41:13Z")
I used to think that push-button ignition (keyless drive) systems were silly. It seemed like more of a flashy trick than a useful feature. My partner bought new Lexus IS 350 in 2008 and it was standard. I quickly changed my opinion! The driver’s door handle and the trunk lid have a small hidden button that opens them when you press it with the fob on or near you. We’ve never had an issue with losing or misplacing keys nor have they ever been locked in the car. The biggest compaint I have is with the size of the key fob. If it just has to function as a transmitter and not a physical key, they should make them more ‘pocket-friendly’! Push-button start systems were the source of some controversy during the ‘Toyota/Lexus Unintended-Acceleration Panic’ and other recent runaway vehicle stories. Several of the drivers were unable to kill the engine using by pushing the button, including a few who ultimately died as a result! In most push-button systems, you must press and HOLD the start button for three seconds to kill the engine! Just as an FYI to anyone reading this! In a panic, many people pressed the button repeatedly instead of holding it. As a final note, I recently had a 2013 Ford Taurus Limited as a rental car. These are words I never dreamed I would say about a Taurus, but it was a GREAT CAR in most respects! It also had keyless entry/drive, which worked fine…but has anyone heard about the MyFord Touch system??? It is an electronic (and ergonic) nightmare that defies all logic! Yet Ford is putting in almost every new vehicle they make…discuss~! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/43 "2012-09-26T12:08:06Z")
I have a 2008 Toyota with a push button system. It does not have to be held to shut off the engine, but I’ve never tried it while in gear (nor would I - neutral is a push of the shift away)\*. Every other vehicle with push button I’ve driven or been driven in did not need long depresses of the start button to shut down. I’m not saying there isn’t one, but it isn’t my experience. Unintended acceleration, I am convinced, is almost entirely due to user error or fraud attempts. \*Now that I think of it, I may have shut off the car in gear while motionless after parking. I’m pretty sure I have, as I have had to restart to get into park. I have never tried to kill the engine while in gear while in motion. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/44 "2012-09-26T14:09:19Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I recently rented a Nissan Altima, which had the “feature” of keyless ignition. I found it really annoying. I was constantly tempted to put the key fob in the cup-holder, where I would then forget it when I left the car. Now, I love technology and gadgets as much as the next guy, but I really don’t see the point of this. Can someone tell me why this is so great? I just wear my key on my person at all times, and don’t have to touch anything. There is no way I can lock my keys in the car, it’s faster, I can operate everything with gloves on in the winter, it’s more secure since I can program certain functions to the key, and it also has the convenience of automatic settings, which I can also pre-program. Some may or may not appeal to everyone, but I much prefer it to having a key and possible key-chain hanging from the ignition. > [@](#): > > Yeah, but you still need to handle the fob to unlock the doors or trunk - so (in my case) they need to come out of your pocket and then back into it. Most keyless entry systems are actually keyless…meaning you can just touch your hand to the door, and with the fob in proximity, you can open it. This includes the trunk, which in my case, has a small button you touch, which unlocks the latch, once the key is sensed. I operate every function of my car, with regard to entry, without the fob leaving my pocket. Also, we can create a bunch of scenarios where people fall into the unfortunate circumstances of a given technology or function. I know of many of them, myself, which relate to physical keys…from keys breaking, to simply locking them in the car (the latter of which I’d say is more frequent than the keyless problems mentioned). All of these happen in an imperfect system, so it simply means the person has to pay more attention and learn from mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/45 "2012-09-26T14:21:19Z")
I’ve rented a couple of SUVs that had keyless entry/starter fobs; I found the system most convenient. As a practical matter on vacations, I just put the fob in a zipped pocket in the morning and never had to think about it for the rest of the day. (unless I went swimming) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/46 "2012-09-26T14:32:49Z")
My only experience with keyless ignition almost killed me; I was driving a rental. I arrived at my destination, pulled in the parking space, reached around to grab the things I needed inside, and made my way out of the car. Now, normally when I pull up somewhere and get distracted before putting the car in park, I can’t take the key out of the ignition until I do so. This time, I pushed the ignition button to turn the car off, got distracted with gathering up my stuff, forgot to put the car in park, got out, and almost got run over by the damn car. If this was a normal ignition, I wouldn’t have even attempted to get out of the car without taking the key out of the ignition, and in-turn put the car in park. Without the key in the ignition, there’s no fail-safe on shifting it into park. Lame-brained? Yes, but I think I’ll pass on keyless ignition, thank you very much. Also, on this same work trip, my co-worker, who also had a rental with keyless ignition, arrived at her hotel, got similarly distracted by gathering up her stuff, and left the car before even turning it off. Yes, the car ran all night. Again, lame-brained? Absolutely, but it’s also something that wouldn’t have happened with the ritual of taking the key out of the ignition. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/47 "2012-09-26T14:49:08Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Absolutely, but it’s also something that wouldn’t have happened with the ritual of taking the key out of the ignition. What’s the difference between the ritual of turning off the engine by taking the key out of the ignition and the ritual of turning off the engine by pressing a button? ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/48 "2012-09-26T14:50:08Z")
> [@Beelzebubba](#): > > The biggest compaint I have is with the size of the key fob. If it just has to function as a transmitter and not a physical key, they should make them more ‘pocket-friendly’! On my Nissan there is a physical key build into the fob in case the Intelligent Key won’t work for some reason (dead battery, dropped in toilet, etc.). I’m pretty happy with the size, actually, compared to some I’ve used like one I got with a VW rental that seemed like it could double as a self defense tool. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/49 "2012-09-26T14:54:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > What’s the difference between the ritual of turning off the engine by taking the key out of the ignition and the ritual of turning off the engine by pressing a button? Walking out of the car with a key in your hand, for one. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/50 "2012-09-26T15:32:42Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Walking out of the car with a key in your hand, for one. And the sound of the engine running doesn’t strike you as important? ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/51 "2012-09-26T15:43:48Z")
We just bought an Altima. I’m neutral about the keyless ignition, but I really like the button on the door handle, so that I can get in the car without digging my keys out of my purse. I wish I had something similar on the door to my house. The biggest drawback is that the car only came with two fobs, and the dealer wanted $200 for a third one (our teenager is starting to drive). I see them online for under $50, but apparently it has to be programmed by a Nissan dealer. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/52 "2012-09-26T15:44:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And the sound of the engine running doesn’t strike you as important? Uh, yeah. But apparently my co-worker didn’t hear it. New cars do run pretty quiet and smooth. Listen, I’m not trying to get into an argument, I just came in here to give two separate reasons on how a keyless ignition seems to be, at the very least something to get used to, or at worst, not a very safe idea. YMOMV. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/53 "2012-09-26T16:34:29Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > We just bought an Altima. I’m neutral about the keyless ignition, but I really like the button on the door handle, so that I can get in the car without digging my keys out of my purse. I wish I had something similar on the door to my house. > > The biggest drawback is that the car only came with two fobs, and the dealer wanted $200 for a third one (our teenager is starting to drive). I see them online for under $50, but apparently it has to be programmed by a Nissan dealer. Ha, I think if I had a teenager starting to drive I’d rather have him/her have to ask me for the key! ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/54 "2012-09-26T16:56:41Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > New cars do run pretty quiet and smooth. I can understand this. Many new cars, when idling under normal engine operating temps, but without the radiator fans running, can be extremely silent. If you’re paying casual attention, you can certainly miss it. 🙂 Again, we can cherry-pick items for any situation, but it’s just something you get used to. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/55 "2012-09-26T17:25:47Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > My only experience with keyless ignition almost killed me; I was driving a rental. > > I arrived at my destination, pulled in the parking space, reached around to grab the things I needed inside, and made my way out of the car. My car (again, an Audi) wouldn’t let you do this. When you tried to turn it off without it being in park, it would have started loudly and violently beeping at you. I’ve done it once or twice myself and you definitely realize instantly that something is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/56 "2012-09-26T17:42:47Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > My car (again, an Audi) wouldn’t let you do this. When you tried to turn it off without it being in park, it would have started loudly and violently beeping at you. I’ve done it once or twice myself and you definitely realize instantly that something is wrong. Well the people at Dodge need to look into that little feature! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/57 "2012-09-27T12:58:39Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I recently rented a Nissan Altima, which had the “feature” of keyless ignition. I found it really annoying. I was constantly tempted to put the key fob in the cup-holder, where I would then forget it when I left the car. Now, I love technology and gadgets as much as the next guy, but I really don’t see the point of this. Can someone tell me why this is so great? PREACH IT BROTHER BEOWULF!! I had the exact same issue with the exact same car. Perhaps it’s an issue with implementation, but all the fob did was introduce new problems where none existed before. As somebody said in another thread, it’s just a way for Nissan to gouge more money out of a captive audience. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/58 "2012-09-27T13:15:34Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > On my Nissan there is a physical key build into the fob in case the Intelligent Key won’t work for some reason (dead battery, dropped in toilet, etc.). Now, **that** is a sensible implementation. Got no problem with keyless systems if as the owner-operator I retain ultimate manual-override authority. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/59 "2012-09-27T21:30:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Now, **that** is a sensible implementation. > Got no problem with keyless systems if as the owner-operator I retain ultimate manual-override authority. Toyota’s have it too. ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801/60 "2012-09-27T21:44:42Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I also sometimes wonder how cars that need keys handle remote starting, but never cared enough to research it. I have a '67 Ford Galaxie 500. I have had a few things done to it at a specialty shop, and they tried to sell me on remote start once. I asked how they would do that without the car having fuel injection (you have to pump the gas pedal a few times when you start it). They said they’ve done it on old cars before - they wire the _door locks_ to the gas line so that locking and unlocking the doors puts gas in the carburetor. I can’t decide if that’s more cool or more scary. Hooking random stuff up to gas lines seems unwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problem-is-keyless-ignition-trying-to-solve/635801.md?page=4)