# What problems could we solve in America, that could actually save money by solving the problem, but we still don't solve them **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017 "2025-05-07T16:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/21 "2025-05-08T03:39:50Z")
On a lighter note, and perhaps not as much money saved, is about making money. Get rid of the one-cent and five-cent coins, since they both cost more to mint than their face value. There’s also the cost of counting and shipping and storing coins. Let’s look to the experiences of other countries who have eliminated their low-valued coinage. (Trump said he wants to get rid of the penny, a not-stupid idea for him, but nothing has happened since then.) The same is true with the one dollar bill. Hey Canada, how’s the loonie work? I hear it’s ok. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/22 "2025-05-08T08:41:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m guessing the reason that can’t be done is that a lot of people earn under-the-table income from odd jobs and whatnot that the government/IRS couldn’t possibly know about, and that if the government were to send you a bill to be paid, then it wouldn’t take such extra income into account. That’s the reason you’d have the opportunity to dispute/correct the bill. I refuse to believe someone who would underreport income in that case is correctly reporting their income under the current regime. > [@Velocity](#): > > I’d be curious how other nations do it. Are there Western nations that do send a bill to taxpayers and have them pay what’s demanded? It would be a lot more efficient. To my knowledge, most Western countries operate that way. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/23 "2025-05-08T09:56:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But yeah - I’d be curious how other nations do it. Are there Western nations that do send a bill to taxpayers and have them pay what’s demanded? It would be a lot more efficient. For the majority of people, they just automatically take the tax out of your salary each month; you never even see that money. Only if you are self employed in some way do you have to manually calculate and pay taxes. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Homelessness is another issue. I think it’ll cost $20 billion a year to solve homelessness. But if we solved it, we spend less on law enforcement and medical care, which could make up most of the $20 billion we’d spend, if not save money in the long run (at least for some of the homeless). I don’t think money is the main obstacle to solving homelessness. In as much as lack of housing is a cause, the major issue is NIMBYism making it difficult to build new homes and driving up prices. And there are a hardcore of homeless who are addicted to drugs, and/or have serious mental illness, and are unable to maintain a home or a standard of behaviour that other people can live with, and unwilling to be treated. What are you going to do with them? Most of the things listed are not the result of unwillingness to spend money in order to save money, but rather someone benefits from the status quo and there is a lack of political will to change it. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > IRS agents to go after wealthy tax cheaters. This is possibly a legit example, but still likely a result of lobbying by those wealthy tax cheaters. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/24 "2025-05-08T10:31:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But yeah - I’d be curious how other nations do it. Are there Western nations that do send a bill to taxpayers and have them pay what’s demanded? It would be a lot more efficient. In the UK, HMRC gives you a tax code related to your personal circumstances. The main factor is the “personal allowance,” which is set annually and is the amount you can earn tax-free. This might be reduced if you have a benefit in kind, like medical insurance, and there are several allowances that might increase it. There are free online calculators for people to check if their code is correct. The code is used by your employer’s payroll department to deduct the correct tax from your salary. If you are self-employed, you have to complete a self-assessment each year and pay any tax that’s due by April 15th. For most people, the tax code stays the same year on year ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/25 "2025-05-08T10:43:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > This is possibly a legit example, but still likely a result of lobbying by those wealthy tax cheaters. Nah, whenever they get into power the Republicans consistently order the IRS to ignore the wealthy and go after the lower class. It’s at least as much about persecution as it is about lobbying. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/26 "2025-05-08T12:54:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, a 2 year college can also be a stepping stone to a 4 year degree. And in fact if you go two years to a CA community college, then graduate with a BA from a CA State University- no one will care that the first two years were spent at a community college. And you will learn whether college is right for you- about 1/3 of students drop out- so why incur a a big student loan while you are testing the waters? I’m not arguing with you, just pointing out the fact that for many, it’s considered the less attractive option. There’s also a certain… status(?) associated with going to a four-year college vs. starting in community college; like the dumb and/or poor kids do that, while the smarter/richer kids go to 4 year colleges. That’s probably the lion’s share of the lack of interest, if I had to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/27 "2025-05-08T13:28:42Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I can’t speak to the accuracy of most of these, but for the one above I think you’d see most rural hospitals in the US go bankrupt or turn into glorified clinics in a few years. It seems to me that you’re looking at this from the POV of Medicare for all, i.e. expanding the current system. Is that so? Because it will not work without re-thinking that whole concept. You often see UHC and single-payer meaning just about the same thing, and they often are, but focus on the single-payer aspect. And also, stop thinking in terms of “profit & loss.” With a single payer system, there are clinics/hospitals who would never exist if they were being run as a business. The single payer slight of hand is to funnel money from other areas, to pay for them to continue their services. And this is exactly the benefit of single payer: they can look at the whole system and decide what needs to go where. I already hear: “But the U.S. is too large, the U.S. is to diverse, the bureaucracy will be worse than the DMV.” which will always be brought out when comparing the U.S. to other countries. In the end, in most OECD countries health care is about ten percent of the GDP. In the U.S. it’s around 20. “We’ve got the best hospitals in the world!” Yes, yes you do. But does the country as a whole get twice as good health care as Germany, France, Japan? The whole point of single payer, IOW, is to even out the costs, letting a hospital in a rural are have MRI, even though it would never work if thought of as a business. * * * As an aside, in larger metro areas (like mine of around 500k) there will be a number of facilities with MRI machines. In a sparsely populated area, you might have to drive an hour or two for the exam. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/28 "2025-05-08T14:06:15Z")
The profit motive is strong in this country, and any problems emerging are typically drown-out by opportunities to exploit and/or the promise of jobs. Its similar for the prison system, health care, and education. A strong prison industry lobby keeps stringent laws like “three strikes” out there to keep prison populations high and growing - more people locked-up, and profit! In health care and education giving people money for access does nothing to address the core problem - health care and education are too expensive. Health insurance and student loans hide the true cost of the service and allow hospitals, doctors, and colleges to ever increase costs, and profit! All the risk goes to the person using those services. Buuut, any attempt to “socialize” these things by allowing the government to run them or regulate them is met with fierce resistance because, profit and jobs! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/29 "2025-05-08T14:10:12Z")
> [@JohnGalt](#): > > (Trump said he wants to get rid of the penny, a not-stupid idea for him, but nothing has happened since then.) There was a recent report that a bipartisan group of Congresspersons had submitted a bill to stop minting the penny. Whether it goes anywhere is to be seen, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/30 "2025-05-08T14:29:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But yeah - I’d be curious how other nations do it. Are there Western nations that do send a bill to taxpayers and have them pay what’s demanded? It would be a lot more efficient. In Canada, we have an online portal for the Canadian Revenue Agency. If you’re doing your taxes on a computer, there are several certified tax software packages you can download, and a lot of them are free if you earn below a certain amount. The last few years, the software offers to connect to the CRA portal, and download all the details they have for your tax returns. If your work isn’t too complicated, that’s pretty much all you need to do, aside from claiming things like charitable and political contributions, and the software walks you through that pretty well. Once you’re finished, it can upload everything to the CRA. Doing my taxes this year took maybe half an hour, outside of remembering where all my donation receipts were. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/31 "2025-05-08T19:21:05Z")
A part of socialized health care in the US could be propping up rural hospitals via direct payments or state vouchers. Hospitals don’t _have_ to be profit generators in a universal system and the nation will still spend less. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/32 "2025-05-08T19:29:32Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > My favorite one is probably income tax filing. Every year the government asks me to do a little math test. They already know the answers No, they don’t know the answers. Many people are self employed or have side jobs or earn gambling winnings. > [@Velocity](#): > > I’m guessing the reason that can’t be done is that a lot of people earn under-the-table income from odd jobs and whatnot that the government/IRS couldn’t possibly know about, and that if the government were to send you a bill to be paid, then it wouldn’t take such extra income into account. Correct. > [@doreen](#): > > I don’t think that’s it - the reason that it’s called “under the table” or “off the books” income is that most people do not report it or pay taxes on it. Well, that is part of it. When you prepare and sign your tax return, you are swearing that is all the significant income you have, and that- to the best of your knowledge- the return is substantially correct. That is why Tax fraud can be a crime. > [@doreen](#): > > But somehow lots of people I know and their kids think they will do better if they go somewhere more expensive. Well, maybe 4 years of college will make them smarter? 😇 > [@China\_Guy](#): > > IRS agents to go after wealthy tax cheaters. They already do. > [@JohnGalt](#): > > On a lighter note, and perhaps not as much money saved, is about making money. Get rid of the one-cent and five-cent coins, since they both cost more to mint than their face value. Canada already dumped the penny and the dollar bill, and it is working fine- especially with the penny. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/33 "2025-05-08T19:37:23Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > A part of socialized health care in the US could be propping up rural hospitals via direct payments or state vouchers. Hospitals don’t _have_ to be profit generators in a universal system and the nation will still spend less. And another factor is, the treatments will likely get cheaper over all, because under the current rules, a lot of people defer care until they really need it, even for minor things. When a few stitches can cost thousands, people might not go in for stitches. But when the cut gets infected, and they think they’re going to die, then they finally show up. What would have been a couple of hours, some stitches, and a bottle of antibiotics to take home suddenly becomes a major medical intervention. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/34 "2025-05-08T19:44:31Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > And another factor is, the treatments will likely get cheaper over all, because under the current rules, a lot of people defer care until they really need it, even for minor things. When a few stitches can cost thousands, people might not go in for stitches. Less that 10% of Americans do not have health insurance. This is not a major cost issue. That is also why Americans really are not that excited about Universal health Care. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/35 "2025-05-08T19:48:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Less that 10% of Americans do not have health insurance. This is not a major cost issue. That is also why Americans really are not that excited about Universal health Care. Trivially true, [but not the whole story.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2024/01/01/us-healthcare-system-leaves-far-too-many-people-underinsured/) > According to a Commonwealth Fund report issued last year, the numbers of underinsured in the U.S. keep rising. In 2022, 43% of working-age adults were [inadequately insured](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2022/sep/state-us-health-insurance-2022-biennial-survey#:~:text=Forty%2Dthree%20percent%20of%20working,to%20health%20care%20(23%25).). These are individuals who were uninsured (9%), had a gap in coverage (11%) or were insured all year but had coverage that didn’t provide them with affordable access to healthcare (23%). What this implies is that many people who technically have health insurance still incur very high out-of-pocket costs With limited coverage, high deductibles, high co-pays, and all that, even “covered” care can cost you thousands, and a lot of people can’t afford that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/36 "2025-05-08T19:52:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they don’t know the answers. Many people are self employed or have side jobs or earn gambling winnings. Last night, **Mr. Mallard** was explaining to his British cousin that in the US, “everyone files tax returns like self-employed people do.” If the US taxes were done like British taxes, it really would save money as well as improve the system. I have paid income taxes in the UK (easiest), Canada (second easiest), and the US (annual clusterfuck). But for whatever reason, people prefer the terrible familiar system. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/37 "2025-05-08T20:15:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Less that 10% of Americans do not have health insurance. This is not a major cost issue. My employer spends over $40k per year on my private health insurance. That is a major cost issue. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/38 "2025-05-08T20:21:56Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > But for whatever reason, people prefer the terrible familiar system. This pretty much sums up most of modern America. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/39 "2025-05-08T22:20:28Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > My employer spends over $40k per year on my private health insurance. That is a major cost issue. Which has nothing to do with what we were talking about- > [@Horatius](#): > > And another factor is, the treatments will likely get cheaper over all, because under the current rules, a lot of people defer care until they really need it, even for minor things. When a few stitches can cost thousands, people might not go in for stitches. See, people dont put off going in for such minor Urgent care issues. The fact that the American healthcare system has many costs is not the point in what we were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017/40 "2025-05-09T11:00:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they don’t know the answers. Many people are self employed or have side jobs or earn gambling winnings. I’ve been clear enough in my post to explain that this approach won’t cover all known income, so if you hadn’t noticed that, please notice it now. The pre-filled approach is not intended to replace income that the government doesn’t know about, because it obviously can’t. For many people such as myself, with income that’s mostly reported by employers and others the government obviously _does_ know the answers, because in some years they send me a letter telling me that I input the wrong information. I correct the form using the information they’ve given me. In that case, which covers many taxpayers, this effort and expense could be avoided if government simply sent me a bill saying “sign this form, or submit corrections, or submit your own version, pick one, we don’t care.” As is done in most civilized countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-problems-could-we-solve-in-america-that-could-actually-save-money-by-solving-the-problem-but-we-still-dont-solve-them/1018017.md?page=3)