# What prompted early man/woman to eat out? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174 "2003-12-20T15:21:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nylact](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f05b48/32.png) [@nylact](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nylact)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/1 "2003-12-20T15:21:33Z")
I mean…when were the REAL first restaurants? It was just brought to my attention that noone (supposedly) knows specifically when or where dining out originated…'uh…gee honey… why don’t we go out and let someone else do the killing and gutting tonight???" ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/2 "2003-12-20T15:42:50Z")
I’m disapointed. From the title I thought this was along the lines of “who was the first person to eat an oyster”. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/3 "2003-12-20T15:55:59Z")
IIRC, the first “resturaunts” were taverns, which served travellers. Taverns were often not only bars, but resturants, hotels, post offices, and convention centers all rolled into one. Visitors who were tired and hungry from their journey could stop and get some hot food and a cup of ale. They were also used by the men of the neighborhood, who stopped in for a cold one after a hard day’s labor in the fields. They may have gotten a bite to eat along with their ale. In major cities, food vendors existed along side of taverns. From them, you could buy foods which didn’t need a plate, such as sausages and bread. It was the first “fast food.” Gradually, they may have moved into buildings where their customers could sit while eating. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/4 "2003-12-20T15:59:31Z")
Hit “Submit” too soon. Many poor people in cities didn’t have cooking facilities, so there was always a market for meals already prepared. “Eating out” was probably first the domain of the poor, who couldn’t afford a chef, or even a stove. Later, roles were switched, as resturants became “respectable” places, and stoves became cheaper and more common. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/5 "2003-12-20T16:14:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanBlather \* > \*\*I’m disapointed. From the title I thought this was along the lines of “who was the first person to eat an oyster”. \*\* Am I the only person who was thinking of, um, something else? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/6 "2003-12-20T16:15:47Z")
Interesting question, this. Hope you don’t mind some WAGs. - Upon preview I see **Lissa** already put forward this theory, so just take this as independent WAG support \* From what I recall from ancient literature (The Bible, Classical Greek and Roman texts) it seems that at first people only ‘ate out’ if they were guests at someone else’s place, or if there were in a foreign place and went to a hostel, inn or the like. In ancient cultures around the Mediterranean there existed specific rules with respect to hospitalty to strangers. If you took it upon yourself to be the host of a stranger, you were obliged to look after him. You can find an example in Genesis 19:1-3; the Greek called the relation _xenia_. I’m not sure whether according hospitality was a voluntary act of kindness or whether other moral notions were involved. However, I would find it likely if such rules were expanded to have someone act as host in return for payment: he’d basically be an inn-keeper. From thereon it’s not a large step to get to a situation where local people also want to enjoy the hospitality and good food of the local inn. And presto! there’s a restaurant. After that it’s all gone downhill into fastfood and _automatieken_. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/7 "2003-12-20T16:17:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*Am I the only person who was thinking of, um, something else? 😉 \*\* LOL i was thinking the same thing…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![nylact](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f05b48/32.png) [@nylact](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nylact)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/8 "2003-12-20T16:18:55Z")
Thanks… but I was talking earlier yet… Ancient Rome? Earlier? ---
**Author:** ![nylact](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f05b48/32.png) [@nylact](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nylact)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/9 "2003-12-20T16:22:23Z")
and re: “something else” - uhh…i guess in my haste, the question was poorly phrased for my purposes, but hey… I just pushed that send button and hoped for the best… ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/10 "2003-12-20T16:50:34Z")
Warning: more WAGs. Well, there are limits on how early on the first restaurant could have appeared. In a mainly agrarian society of small-scale farmers it would be nonsensical to have a restaurant if everyone could just as well eat at home. Rich people would equally well not have much of an incentive to go out. So the primary reason to start offering meals for money is if there are people who do not have a place to go: strangers or paupers. Only then may it become interesting to offer the same service to locals. Alternatively there might have been societies like clubs where friends gathered; that would account for such facilities. Still you would need some significant urban society to be able to support a restaurant or predecessor (inn). Such societies were around before ancient Rome, but not in prehistoric times AFAIK. I guess you’d have to look at Nineve or Babylon or the like. I checked Petronius, _Satyricon_, which describes an orgy with a full meal which takes place in an inn (par. 16-26). This supports the hypothesis that restaurants developed from inns. He also describes a dinner party at someones house. Plato’s _Symposion_ also is a dinner party at someones house. This shows that people did ‘eat out’, but not primarily at a commercial restaurant but rather with friends or acquaintances. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/11 "2003-12-20T17:01:10Z")
Restaurants earlier than ancient Rome? Fine. Earlier than ancient Greece? Um, okay. Go back _too_ far and you begin to predate the widespread use of money, so how much earlier were you thinking? 🙂 FISH ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/12 "2003-12-20T17:21:38Z")
Several of Plautus’ comedies (c. 200 BCE) feature wayward husbands going out to the local brothel for dinner (and, presumably, dessert …) Actually, that makes the thread title very appropriate, come to think of it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/13 "2003-12-20T17:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*Am I the only person who was thinking of, um, something else? 😉 \*\* Maybe I was too subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/14 "2003-12-20T20:12:47Z")
Nah, we’ve all seen _Spartacus_, and there’s no obvious connection between the thread title and actual shellfish. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/15 "2003-12-20T20:20:16Z")
**DanBlather, Crafter\_Man, alterego** No, you weren’t the only ones. You don’t think I clicked on the topic just to talk about reataurants do you ? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/16 "2003-12-20T20:23:46Z")
I’ve always heard that the earliest restaurants as we know them today were started in China. Not sure of the date, trying to find that information now! ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/17 "2003-12-20T20:43:00Z")
At an ancient Roman exhibit at a museum last winter they had a set-up of a food vendor/restuarant thingy. It appears that the places a lot of these Romans lived were too small to have kitchens… or at least useful sized ones - then there was the problem of food storage way back then. Nowadays all you need is a fridge and a microwave to eat 100% at home (although perhaps not very well), both of which can fit into a closet. These people didn’t have that, and seemingly ate mostly “out”. It reminded me of how you eat at a fair or circus grounds. Just walk around and stop by one of the vendors when you get hungry. The exhibit featured those big-assed 4-foot tall ceramic jugs that the food was kept in, and a table over top; sort of like an outdoor bar. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/18 "2003-12-20T20:50:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dorjan \* > \*\*I’ve always heard that the earliest restaurants as we know them today were started in China. Not sure of the date, trying to find that information now! \*\* Incidentally, I’ve got a book around here that claims that the oldest continually operating restaurant in the world is Ma Yu Ching’s Bucket Chicken House in Kaifang, open since 1153. Sure, this sets off my bullshit detector, but anything is possible, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/19 "2003-12-20T20:53:43Z")
Do hunter-gatherer societies with cooperative cooking count? I mean, I’m sure that if you take out a great big game animal you don’t cook it yourself, you cook it as a group (and therefore your wife dosen’t have to do all the work). Does that count as a restaurant, or perhaps as more of a co-op? Also, IIRC historically bread was almost always bought by everybody but extremely rural people, as it makes a lot more sense to have just one bakery. People didn’t have the facilities at home mostly for large-scale cookery. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174/20 "2003-12-20T22:22:00Z")
Food stands were known in ancient Lydia. I doubt they were widespread much earlier, since Lydia was where the coin was invented, and it’s kind of hard to pay for your food in dead ox. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-prompted-early-man-woman-to-eat-out/220174.md?page=2)