# What proportions do you think of when you read this sort of sentence(s) about riot deaths **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935 "2014-09-30T03:24:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/1 "2014-09-30T03:24:50Z")
Any news about the Indian prime minister Narendra Modi, particularly in the media in countries where he is less known, is invariably accompanied by this sentence [http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/09/india-america-and-political-theatre](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/09/india-america-and-political-theatre) > [@](#): > > After riots in the state of Gujarat in 2002 in which at least a thousand people, mainly Muslims, were killed, Mr Modi, then the state’s chief minister, was banned from travelling to America." [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/opinion/the-indian-diaspora-mostly-embraces-mr-modi-without-reservations.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/opinion/the-indian-diaspora-mostly-embraces-mr-modi-without-reservations.html) > [@](#): > > “In 2005, the State Department revoked Mr. Modi’s visa because of his handling of sectarian riots in 2002, when he was chief minister; more than 1,000 people were killed, most of them Muslims.” Those that know are of course welcome to mark the correct proportion. Those that don’t know, I’d like to know what impression you form of the proportions of the people killed from reading this sentence, so I request you not to look up the answer before responding. Thanks. ETA: There’s no gotcha, I’m just genuinely curious as to what impression that sentence gives most people. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/2 "2014-09-30T03:40:19Z")
😕 In my view the terms “most of them” and “mainly” are interchangeable, and have identical meanings. I tend to think of the terms as implying 90%+, but I can swallow anything down to about 75%. If I see them being used to describe 50% +1, of course, I’m inclined to call disingenuous shenanigans. What’s your point? Or your humble opinion, if you prefer? ETA: Didn’t see the poll when I posted. When confronted with a quantitative term I think of as vague (and these qualify, IMHO), I tend to try to look up actual numbers. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/3 "2014-09-30T03:42:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 In my view the terms “most of them” and “mainly” are interchangeable, and have identical meanings. I tend to think of the terms as implying 90%+, but I can swallow anything down to about 75%. > > If I see them being used to describe 50% +1, of course, I’m inclined to call disingenuous shenanigans. > > What’s your point? Or your humble opinion, if you prefer? ? I’ll repeat from the OP. > [@](#): > > I’d like to know what impression you form of the proportions of the people killed from reading this sentence, so I request you not to look up the answer before responding. Thanks. > > ETA: There’s no gotcha, I’m just genuinely curious as to what impression that sentence gives most people. Oh, and I agree mostly and mainly are the same and interchangeable, that’s why I’ve quoted both. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/4 "2014-09-30T03:46:28Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > ? I’ll repeat from the OP. > > Oh, and I agree mostly and mainly are the same and interchangeable, that’s why I’ve quoted both. In addition to not seeing the poll, I didn’t see your ETA when I responded. At first I thought you might be attempting to find one sentence more felicitous than the other. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/5 "2014-09-30T03:48:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > In addition to not seeing the poll, I didn’t see your ETA when I responded. Ah. The OP goes up before the poll does it? No wonder so many poll OPs have a ‘Poll Forthcoming’ disclaimer. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/6 "2014-09-30T03:50:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > At first I thought you might be attempting to find one sentence more felicitous than the other. Yeah, I did a bad job of writing that post. Should have put in just the one example. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/7 "2014-09-30T03:53:40Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Ah. The OP goes up before the poll does it? No wonder so many poll OPs have a ‘Poll Forthcoming’ disclaimer. I actually don’t know. Maybe. But I _can_ be pretty inattentive sometimes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/8 "2014-09-30T04:01:56Z")
To me the expression should be used to describe about two-thirds. If it were as high as 80%, I’d think something “four times as many Muslims” should be used. Of course I don’t think the question would have been asked unless the right answer is closer to 90+% or 51% ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/9 "2014-09-30T05:11:32Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Of course I don’t think the question would have been asked unless the right answer is closer to 90+% or 51% In other words, you’re expecting a gotcha. As I clarified in my OP, there is none. I want to get a better sense of what people think when they read that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/10 "2014-09-30T05:36:51Z")
Fixed the title as you wanted. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/11 "2014-09-30T05:59:19Z")
I agree with **OldGuy**. I’d say “mainly” or “mostly” Muslim would suggest about 2/3rds. This would be about twice as many Muslim as non to me. Any more and I also would want _x_ times as many as not. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/12 "2014-09-30T06:03:23Z")
I’d say at least 70%. In this context the phrase implies some intention. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/13 "2014-09-30T06:26:38Z")
That’s interesting. My prior is that the words “mostly” and “mainly” convey much _higher_ percentages than ~66%. To me, for instance, the words would convey ~90%. The actual percentage, now that we’re lower in the thread, is almost exactly 75%, if we don’t count the Hindu deaths that started the riots, as most don’t. ~70% otherwise. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Fixed the title as you wanted. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/14 "2014-09-30T06:43:47Z")
Everything above 60%, in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/15 "2014-09-30T06:51:03Z")
Granted the demographics of Gujarat\* support the poll, but especially in other states I wonder if 60% Muslim implies 40% Hindu or 40% “Other.” Certainly in other Indian states like Kerala or the north it is more possible to have a more heterogeneous group. \*Slightly over 1% Jain, 0.5% Christian, 0.19% Sikh, 0.07% Buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/16 "2014-09-30T06:53:32Z")
That _is_ interesting. For me, 90% or thereabouts would warrant an “almost all” or at least “the vast majority of”. Dictionaries were not much help. Merriam-Webster defined “most” as “Almost all : the majority”. 😕 I did give a little reasoning with my answer. When one group is twice as abundant as another group, _I_ would say the combined population is comprised mostly of members belonging to the first group. As I (and someone else) said, anything much above that would warrant stronger qualifiers. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/17 "2014-09-30T07:07:31Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Granted the demographics of Gujarat\* support the poll, but especially in other states I wonder if 60% Muslim implies 40% Hindu or 40% “Other.” Certainly in other Indian states like Kerala or the north it is more possible to have a more heterogeneous group. > > \*Slightly over 1% Jain, 0.5% Christian, 0.19% Sikh, 0.07% Buddhist. I did consider putting in ‘others’ instead of ‘Hindus’, but the riots involved only these two communities, and there were no deaths from outside them. > [@jimbuff314](#): > > That _is_ interesting. For me, 90% or thereabouts would warrant an “almost all” or at least “the vast majority of”. Dictionaries were not much help. Merriam-Webster defined “most” as “Almost all : the majority”. 😕 I didn’t think of using a dicitonary :smack: . But it seems to back my interpretation rather than yours don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/18 "2014-09-30T07:08:42Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Granted the demographics of Gujarat\* support the poll, but especially in other states I wonder if 60% Muslim implies 40% Hindu or 40% “Other.” Certainly in other Indian states like Kerala or the north it is more possible to have a more heterogeneous group. > > \*Slightly over 1% Jain, 0.5% Christian, 0.19% Sikh, 0.07% Buddhist. I did consider putting in ‘others’ instead of ‘Hindus’, but the riots involved only these two communities, and there were no deaths from outside them. > [@jimbuff314](#): > > That _is_ interesting. For me, 90% or thereabouts would warrant an “almost all” or at least “the vast majority of”. Dictionaries were not much help. Merriam-Webster defined “most” as “Almost all : the majority”. 😕 I didn’t think of using a dicitonary :smack: But it seems to back my interpretation rather than yours don’t you think? Oh, but you’re saying the majority can also mean as little as 51%. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/19 "2014-09-30T09:30:46Z")
Without reading the articles or knowing more, I would wonder who was rioting and who was killing the Muslims. Was it Muslims attacking some other group? Some other group attacking Muslims? Muslims and some other group facing off in confrontation, and police/military coming in and killing Muslims disproportionately? The way I read that kind of statement, it feels like one group was vastly more targeted than the other group - whether two groups fighting each other or police targeting one side of the combat. I would want to see at a miminum of 70% of the dead being Muslims, but would accept anything larger than that. If you’re talking about two groups confronting each other and killing each other, however, then I would feel more comfortable with 80% or more of the dead were Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935/20 "2014-09-30T10:40:03Z")
90%. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-proportions-do-you-think-of-when-you-read-this-sort-of-sentence-s-about-riot-deaths/699935.md?page=2)