# What public school killed. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063 "2009-08-11T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/21 "2009-08-11T17:24:04Z")
Well then, I think you should allow your public school experience to make you bitter, surly and unhappy for the rest of your life. That’ll show 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/22 "2009-08-11T17:32:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Expecting a 15 year old to sit at a desk for hours at a time isn’t unreasonable. Expecting an 8 year old to, is. I’ve heard that some schools have done away with recess, P.E., and other such “get away from the desk and run around” activities, with detrimental results. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/23 "2009-08-11T17:38:41Z")
School (public school) was the best thing about my childhood. I don’t deny there are some serious problems with education in this country, and I certainly could have gotten a _better_ education, but for me, on a pure enjoyment level, it was fantastic. I got to learn shit, and on top of that, I was rewarded for learning it. What’s not to love? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/24 "2009-08-11T17:43:12Z")
Here is something written by Paul Feig (creator of “Freaks and Geeks”) that I think is absolutely spot-on: "There’s nothing like being told you’re not allowed to know about something to really get your imagination racing. Especially when you’re a kid. The irony was that people were always telling us things they wanted us to know when we were in school. They were constantly trying to force us to listen to them and remember their words and concepts, warning us that everything they were teaching us was for our own good and that it was information we’d definitely need to know in real life. Clearly, no one in the educational system had ever read “Tom Sawyer.” Their misguided attempts to “make learning fun” were never effective because learning _wasn’t_ fun back then. They simply should have figured out what the most important subjects were that we would need later in life, and then told us that they were forbidden to teach those things to us. We would have paid every penny of our allowance just to hear tales about the taboo isosceles triangle or the verboten declarative case, and the con job would have been complete. But, no, they would simply try to convince us how important these subjects were, and so the only attitude we rebellious children could possibly adopt was one of total indifference. It’s because of this that I’ve always felt the school system is designed completely backward. " ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/25 "2009-08-11T17:45:32Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > School (public school) was the best thing about my childhood. I don’t deny there are some serious problems with education in this country, and I certainly could have gotten a _better_ education, but for me, on a pure enjoyment level, it was fantastic. I got to learn shit, and on top of that, I was rewarded for learning it. What’s not to love? Perhaps it was the hellbitch that ruined it for **mswas**. The hellbitch and an uncomfortable chair. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/26 "2009-08-11T17:46:26Z")
My beef was that public school was as much of a day-care and obedience training center as it was about actually, you know, _learning_ stuff. As an adult in retrospect, there’s some logic to that for civilized society’s sake, but as a kid I _hated_ it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/27 "2009-08-11T17:51:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Here is something written by Paul Feig (creator of “Freaks and Geeks”) that I think is absolutely spot-on: > > "There’s nothing like being told you’re not allowed to know about something to really get your imagination racing. Especially when you’re a kid. I dunno, man… I think even kids would eventually figure out that they wouldn’t be mass-producing textbooks about subjects that you \*go to hell \*for learning about. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/28 "2009-08-11T18:17:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think the problem here is not whether the school was public or private. I happened to go to public school. The problem is that they suck the life out of children by trying to educate them in a format that is not conducive to a child’s natural instincts. Kids LOVE to learn, they just don’t love to be forced to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours on end. As a teacher, I hear you, and it frustrates me no end the programs that I’m required to follow when I teach. I’ve had kids who would learn just beautifully if I could put them on a football field and have them shout answers as they raced back and forth; I’ve had kids who would be fantastic if I could give them constant one-on-one assistance; I’ve had kids who’d totally shine if they could learn in the context of a near-constant game of make believe (if I could introduce Dungeons and Dragons in second grade, these kids would be golden). But NCLB dictates certain realities, and those are passed along to the state, who passes them along to the district, who passes them along to me. It’s no good. At the same time, it’s my job to make school fun, and generally I think I succeed at it. Even kids who struggle and who get in trouble a lot will fake wellness in my class so that I don’t send them home sick. I hope that’s partly me, but I know it’s to a large degree what home life is like for some of these kids. When home means a foster family because your own parents are too crack-addled to take care of you, or home means a mom who never pays you any attention because she’s too wrapped up in her work, or home means an abusive stepfather, or even home means being the youngest of a half-dozen rambunctious and aggressive siblings, school can look awful fine. And I wouldn’t count on school being better than the alternative. My father talks about the amazing discipline he saw among elementary school students in rural China. The classroom overlooked the rice paddies, and the fortunate few children who made it into the school could at any time look out to see what the alternative to school could be. Without public schools, what do you think most kids would be doing, especially most kids from families too poor to afford private school? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/29 "2009-08-11T18:17:31Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In part certainly. I use to bring a back support to work. Solved that problem with unemployment. Turns out I enjoyed having back pain. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/30 "2009-08-11T18:23:39Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think the problem here is not whether the school was public or private. I happened to go to public school. The problem is that they suck the life out of children by trying to educate them in a format that is not conducive to a child’s natural instincts. Kids LOVE to learn, they just don’t love to be forced to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours on end. Studies have shown that is the ideal environment to prepare our children for their future in our nations factories, office parks and call centers. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/31 "2009-08-11T18:27:51Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Public school killed the excitement upon waking up. Of course it did. That was the point. If you were trying to train children to be curious, innovative and creative, would you design an institution anything like the schools we have now? If you were trying to train children to follow orders and know their place in a heirarchy, would you design an institution any different from the schools we have now? Google “The seven-lesson schoolteacher” by John Taylor Gatto. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/32 "2009-08-11T18:52:28Z")
> [@furt](#): > > If you were trying to train children to be curious, innovative and creative, would you design an institution anything like the schools we have now? How would you design it differently, without increasing the cost? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/33 "2009-08-11T18:58:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Studies have shown that is the ideal environment to prepare our children for their future in our nations factories, office parks and call centers. We have factories and call centers? I’m pretty sure we outsource that stuff. Wait, what is it Americans actually do again? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/34 "2009-08-11T19:04:31Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > We have factories and call centers? I’m pretty sure we outsource that stuff. Wait, what is it Americans actually do again? We have meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/35 "2009-08-11T19:05:41Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Of course it did. That was the point. > > If you were trying to train children to be curious, innovative and creative, would you design an institution anything like the schools we have now? > > If you were trying to train children to follow orders and know their place in a heirarchy, would you design an institution any different from the schools we have now? > Google “The seven-lesson schoolteacher” by John Taylor Gatto. I read it, and I thought it was “golden age” nonsense. [http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt](http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt) The thought that pre-civil war US schooling was all sorts of empowering for poor folk (compared to the alleged horrors of today) strikes me at least as most unlikely, as does the notion that one could, properly motivated, learn all one needed to know of reading, writing and mathematics in 100 hours. As is often the case with this sort of thing, there may be some good points to make, but the author spoils them by heaping them under a mound of absurd hyperbole and wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/36 "2009-08-11T19:10:06Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > We have meetings. Coffee just came out my nose. Dead on. ---
**Author:** ![Jerseyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Jerseyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerseyman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/37 "2009-08-11T19:25:58Z")
No doubt there are faults in the system. There are in any system and one of those faults is a reluctance to accept skill at academic subjects but none such at sports. If you want a look at the old schools, try reading Dickens or _Tom Brown’s Schooldays_ set in one of the top English schools. Read what writers through the ages have had to say about being sat down and having their tables and Latin chant beaten into them. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/38 "2009-08-11T19:30:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Me: “I don’t wanna get up! I don’t wanna go to school! The kids are mean and cruel and nobody likes me!” > > Wife:“You have to go to school. You’re the teacher.” Thanks for making me burst out laughing at work… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/39 "2009-08-11T19:39:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Public school killed the excitement upon waking up. Not just public school, my step-Mother was a hellbitch, but Public school was a huge part of it. Well, that was your public school, just like it was your step-mom, right? While I’m sure many others agree, there are quite a few good public schools. I teach in one, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/40 "2009-08-11T19:45:09Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > We have meetings. Or conference calls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063.md?page=3)