# What public school killed. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063 "2009-08-11T15:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/41 "2009-08-11T19:47:51Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Well, that was your public school, just like it was your step-mom, right? > > While I’m sure many others agree, there are quite a few good public schools. I teach in one, actually. And when those children you teach wake up every morning, do you suppose they think “I’m happy to be alive” or “Shit, I gotta go to school now”? Might be either, neither or both, but I would be surprised if it were, “Yippy skip! It’s time to go to the learnitorium!” ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/42 "2009-08-11T20:04:02Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think the problem here is not whether the school was public or private. I happened to go to public school. The problem is that they suck the life out of children by trying to educate them in a format that is not conducive to a child’s natural instincts. Kids LOVE to learn, they just don’t love to be forced to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours on end. So in other words, they do [exactly what they were designed to do](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system) > [@](#): > > German philosopher Johann Gottlieb Fichte, a key influence on the system, said, “The schools must fashion the person, and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will.” For further reading, check out [Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher’s Journey Through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling](http://www.amazon.ca/Weapons-Mass-Instruction-Schoolteachers-Compulsory/dp/0865716315). My local NPR station [did an interview](http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/4451942) with the [author, John Gatto,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto)( **furt** and I were thinking along the same lines apparently) and he has researched the formation of the US compulsory education system and how it was modeled on the Prussian system. If you like the podcast, check out the book. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/43 "2009-08-11T20:13:19Z")
I felt the same way as the OP when I was in public school. It mostly went away in college, although I used a lot of that newfound freedom to sleep in. And I’ve hardly ever had that feeling since I graduated. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/44 "2009-08-11T20:28:52Z")
> [@Jerseyman](#): > > No doubt there are faults in the system. There are in any system and one of those faults is a reluctance to accept skill at academic subjects but none such at sports. If you want a look at the old schools, try reading Dickens or _Tom Brown’s Schooldays_ set in one of the top English schools. Read what writers through the ages have had to say about being sat down and having their tables and Latin chant beaten into them. This. And the reason I loved school, even high school, was that in the good old days New York tracked students, so in the classes I went to someone caring more about sports than learning would be looked on as a little odd. I never, ever, got shot down for being out of line intellectually. Nor did anyone else. I had a 2 year AP history class, and after the first month we never had a test and never had homework beyond reading the (wonderful) text. The teacher trusted us, and we repaid it by keeping up - even the hippie dippie dope smoking radical types. But for most schools academic letters, not just a few awards at graduation, might be real good. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/45 "2009-08-11T21:00:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I felt the same way as the OP when I was in public school. It mostly went away in college, although I used a lot of that newfound freedom to sleep in. And I’ve hardly ever had that feeling since I graduated. I think I would have liked school a lot better if I were getting laid. Hell, I’d go back to college _tomorrow_ if I could get more Pell Grants. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/46 "2009-08-11T21:29:26Z")
In related news, vegetables killed eating, and chores killed family life. Come now, children are lazy little monkeys, there’s lots of things they’d rather not do, so f-ing what. If your alternative was to work on a farm 10 hours a day I promise you’d quite love school. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/47 "2009-08-12T03:57:45Z")
> [@furt](#): > > If you were trying to train children to follow orders and know their place in a heirarchy, would you design an institution any different from the schools we have now? I have this recurring nightmare in which I find myself at a school where they take all my clothes away except for a coat. I have no shoes and I can only take one bath every 3 months. I sleep with my classmates in a dormitory on a pallet bed made of rushes, which I have to pluck with my bare hands from the river. If I am hungry I have to go out and catch a rat for supper, and if I get caught I am beaten senseless. When I eventually awake in a cold sweat, I can’t remember if I have been dreaming about the education system in Ancient Sparta, or if I was reliving the privations I once suffered under the harsh regime at a private boarding school I once attended in the north of England. The two educational models were so similar that the memory tends to merge historical knowledge with actual life experience. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/48 "2009-08-12T04:04:05Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > And when those children you teach wake up every morning, do you suppose they think “I’m happy to be alive” or “Shit, I gotta go to school now”? Might be either, neither or both, but I would be surprised if it were, “Yippy skip! It’s time to go to the learnitorium!” Do you think it should be like a holiday? I think it is somewhere in the middle. We aren’t Disney World or even a day of video games and skateboarding. However, we aren’t intended to be. Our job is to encourage learning, curiosity, and active engagement in subjects. I, and I think many other teachers where I teach, provide a useful education in an interesting way and in a safe environment. I mean, we aren’t perfect, but the OP titled his thread “what public school killed”, which sounds like public schools are some kind of antagonistic organization designed in a way that causes harm. His might have been, which is why I emphasized “your” public school. It’s not reasonable to group all public schools into “public school killed”. It should read, “What my public school killed,” or something. I mean, can’t we even agree on that? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/49 "2009-08-12T04:07:47Z")
Catholic school had its moments as well, but I think nuns with paddles produce better writers. That’s why there are so many well-written books and plays about how awful Catholic schools are. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/50 "2009-08-12T04:27:01Z")
:rolleyes::rolleyes: It seems like every time these threads pop up, there’s this myth that all kids work the same way, and if we just found that secret teaching technique, all the kids would be receptive, kind, and enlightened. This is a load of crock. Everyone has a different personality, meaning that some techniques work better on some kids and worse on others. And the public school system is just woefully unequipped to deal with that. At the moment, it works to strike the best balance it can. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/51 "2009-08-12T05:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is that they suck the life out of children by trying to educate them in a format that is not conducive to a child’s natural instincts. Kids LOVE to learn, they just don’t love to be forced to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours on end. No. The problem is that public schools are all One Size Fits All. In other words, they’re set up to educate the Mythical Average Learner. I was at both ends of the spectrum…meaning special ed (deaf and learning disabled) AND gifted. Still have no clue how I got educated, especially since as a deaf kid I got lumped in with the " Who’s President Bush/Clinton?" dumbasses who filled the sped programs in my area. I loved the academic part of school…but it was very hard for me to do well b/c I didn’t have proper accomondations etc. Even my parents now say they should have sent me to a school for the deaf or at least a school with a dhh program. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/52 "2009-08-12T07:38:38Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > We have meetings. And don’t have a chance to read the source material being discussed at the meetings because you didn’t have time because you were in meetings all day. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/53 "2009-08-12T07:44:26Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > No. The problem is that public schools are all One Size Fits All. In other words, they’re set up to educate the Mythical Average Learner. I was at both ends of the spectrum…meaning special ed (deaf and learning disabled) AND gifted. Still have no clue how I got educated, especially since as a deaf kid I got lumped in with the " Who’s President Bush/Clinton?" dumbasses who filled the sped programs in my area. I loved the academic part of school…but it was very hard for me to do well b/c I didn’t have proper accomondations etc. Even my parents now say they should have sent me to a school for the deaf or at least a school with a dhh program. Agreed. **furt** I’ve read Gatto. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/54 "2009-08-12T14:18:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I, and I think many other teachers where I teach, provide a useful education in an interesting way and in a safe environment. > > I mean, we aren’t perfect, but the OP titled his thread “what public school killed”, which sounds like public schools are some kind of antagonistic organization designed in a way that causes harm. > > His might have been, which is why I emphasized “your” public school. > > It’s not reasonable to group all public schools into “public school killed”. It should read, “What my public school killed,” or something. > > I mean, can’t we even agree on that? Do we really have to be this specific every time we speak? I suppose the OP should have read “Public school killed the enjoyment of waking up every morning upon realization that it was time to go to school – I’m sorry, let me amend. I think that many schools are so ill-designed and ill-conceived that they invoke misery more than a desire for learning. I’ll further amend to make explicitly clear that this is not true of every single public school on the planet, and some students are fortunate enough to attend institutions where they get to learn without having their souls crushed. Mine was not such a school. But even so, the luckiest kids do not get up every morning, enthralled by the idea of having to go to school.” When I make a statement like, “Nobody should be allowed to bartend until they’re 35,” I don’t wanna hear any stories about how your cousin is a great bartender and is only 27, but still makes the best Old Fashioned in the state. Good for your cousin, and tell him to whip one up for me post haste, but I would like to be able to make a general statement without having to insert footnotes for every exception there is. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/55 "2009-08-12T17:46:11Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think the problem here is not whether the school was public or private. I happened to go to public school. The problem is that they suck the life out of children by trying to educate them in a format that is not conducive to a child’s natural instincts. Kids LOVE to learn, they just don’t love to be forced to sit in an uncomfortable chair for hours on end. I had a different problem at my public school. I call it knives. You see, a lot of the kids had them when I went to school. No matter how many people will tell you to suck it up, it is hard to concentrate on metamorphic rocks when you are busy trying not to get stabbed. I agree that some teachers can really suck the life out of really interesting topics, but all I really wanted was for my school to be a little safer. You can’t really learn anything interesting on a high school level anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/56 "2009-08-12T18:50:39Z")
Public school made me hate sports. I was fine at neighborhood sandlot games, but when in school the gym teachers would only talk to the one or two phenoms in each sport and treat the rest of us like dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Theodore\_Striker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Theodore\_Striker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theodore_Striker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063/57 "2009-08-12T19:07:19Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Do we really have to be this specific every time we speak? I suppose the OP should have read “Public school killed the enjoyment of waking up every morning upon realization that it was time to go to school – I’m sorry, let me amend. I think that many schools are so ill-designed and ill-conceived that they invoke misery more than a desire for learning. I’ll further amend to make explicitly clear that this is not true of every single public school on the planet, and some students are fortunate enough to attend institutions where they get to learn without having their souls crushed. Mine was not such a school. But even so, the luckiest kids do not get up every morning, enthralled by the idea of having to go to school.” > > When I make a statement like, “Nobody should be allowed to bartend until they’re 35,” I don’t wanna hear any stories about how your cousin is a great bartender and is only 27, but still makes the best Old Fashioned in the state. Good for your cousin, and tell him to whip one up for me post haste, but I would like to be able to make a general statement without having to insert footnotes for every exception there is. You are aware of what message board you are posting this on, right :)? I was fortunate to attend private schools 1-12, and they can be equally as crushing. My kids are in public schools, and I have definitely had my frustrations, but this experience has varied from district to district and teacher to teacher. Unfortunately, there has become so much dependence on standardized achievement testing that the kids who really need to be in accelerated programs or more challenging environments are neglected. One administrator’s rationale for not giving gifted children more opportunity was that “they usually come back to the pack.” Of course they are- you stopped challenging them!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-public-school-killed/506063.md?page=2)