# What radicalized white voters in 2016? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909 "2018-07-14T19:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/81 "2018-07-17T17:32:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Only maybe? That point deserves far more scrutiny than it’s gotten, and I really don’t get why so many want to tiptoe around it. Avoidance doesn’t help fix the problem. > > _Of course_ it played a role, a major one, in the decades-long smear campaign against her, and _of course_ that eventually had an effect. Is there really any doubt about the number of voters who can accept having a woman in a secondary position in some organization, but not in charge? Okay, you can lump that in with the fear- and hate-mongering that any tinpot pols can do, but that only works if the genuine worry being mongered into fear already exists. Just look at all the hate, including gender-specific invective, being spewed at any other Democratic woman at high levels. It works. I dunno. Maybe I’m just not hanging out in the “right” corners of the internet, but while I can remember a great many thinly or not at all veiled misogynist attacks on Ms. Clinton going back many years, I’m not seeing any such attacks on, say, Tammy Duckworth, Elizabeth Warren or Amy Klobuchar. I mean, I’m sure I could find them if I looked hard enough, but I don’t think the current GOP stresses misogyny as a core value in the same way that it focuses on race, sexuality and religion. There’s a reason Trump got 41% of the female vote, as opposed to 8% of the black vote and 14% of the gay vote. HRC was a uniquely terrible candidate for many reasons, some of her own making and some not. I would not want to see her failure used as a reason not to nominate other qualified women in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/82 "2018-07-17T17:40:04Z")
> [@Aescwynn](#): > > 1. The idea that Obama contributed to the national debt “more than all other presidents combined” is factually incorrect. > [https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#1f9c7c119172](https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/01/15/obamas-federal-debt-grew-at-a-slower-rate-than-reagan-h-w-bush-or-w-bush/#1f9c7c119172) Yes, Silver lining has repeatedly made that assertion in other threads and had it debunked. And yet he continues to do so. I know some words to describe that behavior, but in this forum the behavior itself is tolerated, while accurately describing the behavior is not, so I won’t use them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/83 "2018-07-17T17:43:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m happy to agree with your overall point. However Wikipedia tells me that SNAP was 1.8% of 2016 federal spending (even when off-budget programs like Soc Sec are included in the total). Unless you forgot to move the decimal by two positions as required by “percent,” I think your claim is exaggerated. > . Linky? And actual wording? Because I can’t find that in the wiki article. It cost 66B out of a 3.7T budget. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/84 "2018-07-17T17:46:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Could be events like the “[Day Without Whites](https://nypost.com/2017/05/31/college-melts-down-over-plan-for-white-people-free-day-on-campus/)” event at Evergreen college. > > Earlier [racial incidents like at the University of Missouri](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/two-years-after-university-missouri-protests-college-cant-shake-negative-image.html). > > This [woman, the head of the Idaho democrats, says its her job to tell white people to "shut up](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/01/24/dnc_chair_candidate_my_job_is_to_tell_white_people_when_to_shut_their_mouths.html)". > > Why should I as a white person want to join a party who tells me my job is to shut up? Gosh, what a surprise that this poster has grossly misrepresented the content of his own link. If only there was some term to describe posters who repeatedly do this. What she actually said was "“My job is to shut **other** white people down **when they want to interrupt** ,”. So yes, if you are so attached to white supremacy that you believe nobody else should be allowed to speak if there is a member of the master race in the room, you would probably not feel welcome in the modern Democratic Party. And I’m really OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/85 "2018-07-17T17:51:45Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I’m not seeing any such attacks on, say, Tammy Duckworth, Elizabeth Warren or Amy Klobuchar. Can’t speak to Duckworth or Klobuchar, but then they haven’t reached a leadership level yet, or gone against the moneyed interests, but re Warren, you could look up “Fauxcahontas” and the “Nevertheless, she persisted” incident. > [@](#): > > I don’t think the current GOP stresses misogyny as a core value in the same way that it focuses on race, sexuality and religion. Not explicitly, they don’t dare, but that’s a large part of what’s behind antichoice. > [@](#): > > There’s a reason Trump got 41% of the female vote, as opposed to 8% of the black vote and 14% of the gay vote. Nobody said that’s the only factor. > [@](#): > > I would not want to see her failure used as a reason not to nominate other qualified women in the future. But it will. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/86 "2018-07-17T18:02:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I must disagree with this. From what I recall being told at the time, voters knew he was lieing, but he was lieing openly. They knew he was lieing and he knew that they knew. And they knew that he knew that they knew. This was in stark contrast to Clinton, who was speaking sideways and being deceptive. The fuck? People were okay with him lying because he was honest about it? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/87 "2018-07-17T18:14:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > This [woman, the head of the Idaho democrats, says its her job to tell white people to "shut up](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/01/24/dnc_chair_candidate_my_job_is_to_tell_white_people_when_to_shut_their_mouths.html)". Wow, let me just add RealClearPolitics to the “dishonest shitbags not worth taking seriously” pile. That’s not what she said. That’s not a reasonable interpretation of what she said. It’s only not a lie in the same way “Obama: ‘You didn’t build that’” isn’t a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/88 "2018-07-17T18:20:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But it will. The former Korean president was impeached on charges of corruption and abuse of power. She is from the Conservative party. She is the third Conservative president to be convicted of corruption, abuse of power and getting dynastically rich from their office. It doesn’t seem to be affecting the electability of Conservatives. But oddly enough it is affecting the electability of Liberal female politicians. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/89 "2018-07-17T18:24:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Linky? And actual wording? Because I can’t find that in the wiki article. It cost 66B out of a 3.7T budget. 66/3700=.0178 which is 1.78 percent. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/90 "2018-07-17T18:25:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is just factually false. Martin O’Malley, Jim Webb, and Lincoln Chaffey all ran as Democrats for the nomination. They didn’t get more than a tiny thread of support because _most Democrats supported Hillary Clinton_. And most of the rest, plus lots of progressive-minded independents, supported Bernie. It is true, though, that[the Party’s leadership rallied around Clinton](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/) with a unanimity and at an early stage of the race unprecedented in the history of the primary elections era. In every prior election, it was almost unheard of for a politician to endorse a Presidential candidate more than a year before the Iowa caucuses, and most held off until after the voters in least a few States had weighed in on the candidates. In 2016, Clinton had wrapped up the support of most influential Democrats long before actual primary voting started. Several high profile Democrats, including Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, and Gillebrand, endorsed her _in 2013._ So, although the fault is more accurately laid with the entire Democratic establishment than with the DNC specifically, it is fair to say that Democratic elites collectively gambled on the unusual strategy of anointing a candidate long before verifying that said candidate could actually appeal to voters. Look at the list of the other four candidates – one obscure Congressman with zero name recognition and no budget, three people who were far outside of the Democratic mainstream politically and in two cases had spent the vast majority of their political careers as non-Democrats. IOW, nobody who in a normal year would have been considered a credible candidate, and nobody who had anything to lose by pissing off the Democratic establishment. No mainstream, well-known candidate ran against Clinton, because the party establishment created an environment in which there was simply no access to endorsements or fundraising for anyone else. They tried to “unify” early in order to avoid a divisive primary battle, and all it got them was…a divisive primary battle _plus_ an unpopular candidate. I love Bernie Sanders and hope that his candidacy marks the birth of a robust democratic socialist movement in the US, but based on currently available data I can’t rule out the possibility that his success was solely due to this arrogant blunder on the part of the Dem elites, and that in a normal year with, say, Biden and a couple other big names in the mix, he would have been another Kucinich. So Urban Redneck is factually wrong on the details, but on the big picture he is pretty much spot on here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/91 "2018-07-17T20:39:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The fuck? People were okay with him lying because he was honest about it? More like, they’re accustomed to thinking all pols lie (both sides do it, right? Especially the other guys), so you might as well go with the guy who’s telling lies you like - the reassuring type that put all the blame and all the responsibility for everything on somebody else, and promise you pie in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/92 "2018-07-18T02:03:05Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Yes, Silver lining has repeatedly made that assertion in other threads and had it debunked. And yet he continues to do so. I know some words to describe that behavior, but in this forum the behavior itself is tolerated, while accurately describing the behavior is not, so I won’t use them. And while we’re on the subject of the national debt, [White House Projects $1 Trillion Deficit in 2019.](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/397445-white-house-budget-projects-1-trillion-deficit-in-2019) Highlights: > [@](#): > > Budget watchdogs said that deficits had doubled in recent years as a result of bipartisan spending agreements and the GOP tax-cut law passed in December. > > “This is a striking acknowledgement following almost two years of claims that economic growth unleashed by these policies will wipe deficits away,” said Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. > > The budget outlook maintained the rosy economic projections the Trump White House has used in previous forecasts, but seemed to indicate a slight retreat from an earlier promise. > > The White House also projected that corporate profits would grow 13 percent over a decade, while employee compensation would surge 68 percent. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated that hourly wages have grown just 2.7 percent in the past year, though once inflation was taken into account the number fell to zero. Keep on makin’ America great again.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/93 "2018-07-18T02:37:33Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In the case of my Southern friends and family, it’s racism against Hispanics. Not blacks. > > Because black people have been their neighbors, coworkers and friend for decades now. My 90 year old mother has been known to go on rants about how Black Lives Matter. CNN’s United Shades of America is their favorite TV show. My brother threw an alarm salesman off the property with several choice words after he intimated that we might need an alarm system because we had black neighbors. Most of the young people in my nephews wedding party were black. There was the time I caught my nephews then fiancé making a face when I mentioned a mutual friend and her black boyfriend, but when I said something to my nephew he laughed and said it was because she used to date the guy. > > But they get tweaked when they hear people speaking Spanish in public. Even though none of them has ever lost a job to a Hispanic immigrant, they see Hispanics working construction and think “those guys are taking jobs away from real Americans”. They see Hispanics with large families and think they are in danger of becoming a minority. It’s easy to sell them on the Trump “immigrants are destroying the country” rhetoric because they want to buy it. And because of that, they support heartless and economically unsound anti-immigrant policies. > > It’s maddening. They’re, I think, unusual. When it all comes down, anybody that doesn’t like brown, isn’t going to like black. Anybody who doesn’t like Muslims, isn’t going to like Jews. It’s the height of irony, but bigots _don’t_ discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/94 "2018-07-18T05:34:28Z")
I don’t think most of the country is bigoted. I do think there’s a lot of racial anxiety and resentment out there among all groups, and a lot of that motivates voting behavior. Whites didn’t become radicalized so much as they started voting like a minority group, at least at lower income levels. And what led to THAT is that poor whites are the only group no one cares about. Rich and upper middle class whites get what they want and aren’t threatened by immigration or affirmative action. Poor whites bear the brunt of those policies. Their kids don’t get to go to nice colleges if their test scores aren’t good. Their high school dropouts don’t get to work in warehouses where undocumented labor can just be hired for cheaper and the federal authorities will look the other way. Their parents are the ones who lost their factory jobs in part due to trade. And then they get told they are privileged. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/95 "2018-07-18T05:54:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think most of the country is bigoted. Really? When do you figure that started? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/96 "2018-07-18T06:01:19Z")
So before affirmative action, it was easy for poor white kids with bad test scores to get into good colleges? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/97 "2018-07-18T06:11:01Z")
No, but they see non-white kids with worse scores than their kids getting in. And often with more family income. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/98 "2018-07-18T06:24:01Z")
How do they know what test scores someone else’s kid has? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/99 "2018-07-18T06:37:19Z")
So, basically your position is that, a couple generations ago, it was much easier for a stupid, lazy white person to live a comfortable life than for stupid, lazy people of other races. Now it’s only somewhat easier, and stupid, lazy white people are upset about that, and…what, the rest of us are supposed to act like they have some kind of legitimate grievance? Screw that. Progressives offer policies that will actually improve the lives of poor white people: improved access to health care, job training and education, and good blue collar jobs created by infrastructure spending. If they’d rather stay sick, unskilled and broke in order to not have to admit that yes, white privilege is an actual thing, then that’s their own damn fault. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909/100 "2018-07-18T06:40:29Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > How do they know what test scores someone else’s kid has? Oh, wait, is it the same way they know that the Hispanic guys working in the warehouse must be “illegals”? MAGIC RACIST X-RAY VISION!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-radicalized-white-voters-in-2016/817909.md?page=6)