# What rank could this be? (British WW1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 10, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470 "2014-06-10T12:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/1 "2014-06-10T12:53:23Z")
Probably an easy one, but it’s got me stumped. Recently saw a pic of a relative from the Great War, stationed in France - British infantry. On his shoulder he wears the two chevrons of a corporal, but with a bar on the top. I’ve done a [mock-up](http://s27.postimg.org/9vewdkdoj/rank.jpg) here (full credit to [this site](http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Ranks/USA_Enlisted_WW2.htm) for the original image). I can’t find any shoulder insignia online that matches it - what would two chevrons with a top bar signify? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/2 "2014-06-10T13:49:12Z")
Not to disparage your relative, but is it possible he was a draftee, and not knowing much about the service, is wearing the insignia incorrectly? Or possibly, wearing it incorrectly on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/3 "2014-06-10T14:50:41Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Not to disparage your relative, but is it possible he was a draftee, and not knowing much about the service, is wearing the insignia incorrectly? Or possibly, wearing it incorrectly on purpose? Could be I guess, but it isn’t taken on the field, it’s a photo of his unit like [this](http://camc.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/dsc048081.jpg) (those are Canucks but you get the idea), everyone’s smartly turned out and clean shaven - on the opposite end of his line there’s a guy wearing the same thing, in the middle of them is their sergeant with the usual [three chevrons](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Army-GBR-OR-06.svg). ETA: The only other details on it are ‘1917, France’ if that’s any help. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/4 "2014-06-10T15:05:12Z")
Do you know if you had any kind of specialty, like bugler or some such? Are you sure he was infantry and not something like artillery, general staff driver, or other branch? My (so far) meager search has not produced any point-down corporal chevrons with anything above them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/5 "2014-06-10T15:12:24Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Do you know if you had any kind of specialty, like bugler or some such? Are you sure he was infantry and not something like artillery, general staff driver, or other branch? My (so far) meager search has not produced any point-down corporal chevrons with anything above them. Glad its not just me failing on the old Google front. Unfortunately I haven’t a clue if he a bugler or other specialised role, but pretty sure his unit is infantry - they all have their Lee-Enfields by their sides. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/6 "2014-06-10T15:25:19Z")
Unless you’re seeing two chevrons _without_ a bar on some soldiers, consider the possibility that it’s just a more elaborate version of the standard corporal chevrons. In other words, maybe it just means “corporal”. My grandfather was a lance corporal in the AIF in WW1, but lance corporals didn’t get any special insignia. LCs were lower in rank than regular corporals, just section leaders of small groups of privates. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/7 "2014-06-10T15:26:09Z")
Might the “bar” on top be a regimental shoulder title? Is it connected to the chevrons? Do you know what regiment or region he came from? ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/8 "2014-06-10T15:33:34Z")
Speaking historically, WWI armies _did_ wear inverted chevrons. The US at the time of [WWI](http://usarmyinsigniahomepage.netii.net/em_ww1inf.html) was going point up, but during the [Spanish-American War](http://usarmyinsigniahomepage.netii.net/span-inf.html), they were point down. The two stripes _looks_ like a Corporal, but the closest modern use of two rockers and one arc is from the [Singapore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_corporal) Armed Forces. IIRC, Singapore was under British control at one point, and these stripes could have evolved from the British usage at the time. [Here’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army_other_ranks_rank_insignia#Historical_ranks) the current British chart and a list of historical ranks. Reading between lines, if he were American, it’s possible he would be a Supply Corporal . . . maybe. Tripler The plot thickens. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/9 "2014-06-10T15:52:06Z")
My guess would be lance-sergeant ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/10 "2014-06-10T16:25:48Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Unless you’re seeing two chevrons _without_ a bar on some soldiers, consider the possibility that it’s just a more elaborate version of the standard corporal chevrons. In other words, maybe it just means “corporal”. > > My grandfather was a lance corporal in the AIF in WW1, but lance corporals didn’t get any special insignia. LCs were lower in rank than regular corporals, just section leaders of small groups of privates. Found a similar arrangement from [Singapore](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal#Singapore) of all places, although he definitely wasn’t Singaporean! Actually that Singaporean one is almost exactly what he has, my mock up is a bit too ‘pointy’. To make matters more confusing, other than him (my great-grandfather), the sergeant and the guy opposite him with the same, there’s one other corporal who has some sort of silver-looking square over his chevrons like [this](http://s29.postimg.org/mrgsn58f7/rank2.jpg?noCache=1402417185). None of the others (about 20 of them) have anything, so presumably they’re privates. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Might the “bar” on top be a regimental shoulder title? Is it connected to the chevrons? Do you know what regiment or region he came from? Doesn’t look like a title, I’ve tried looking at his badge cap but it’s too small to say anything definitive, looks like a ‘leafy star’ like the [Border Regiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Regiment) although it could be any other similar one. I think he was Scottish? Incidentally I’ve got one other photo where he’s with 4 other guys at some kind of camp (there’s a tent behind him and people sleeping behind him - at least I hope they’re sleeping) and he’s wearing only regular corporal chevrons, the others have nothing. ---
**Author:** ![bunyupp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@bunyupp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bunyupp)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/11 "2014-06-10T21:49:04Z")
Is it possible, that prior to WW1, he was in a British Colonial Army (Boer War, Sudan, ???). You might try posting to [this site](http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forums/22/British-Militaria-and-History#.U5d8RxZR62Q). Someone there might know something. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rank-could-this-be-british-ww1/690470/12 "2014-06-12T15:08:19Z")
> [@bunyupp](#): > > Is it possible, that prior to WW1, he was in a British Colonial Army (Boer War, Sudan, ???). You might try posting to [this site](http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forums/22/British-Militaria-and-History#.U5d8RxZR62Q). Someone there might know something. He looks fairly young in the two pics of him I’ve got, early 20s-ish. I know he didn’t start a family until 10 years after the war ended and returned to civvie street, so I think he’d been too young to be involved with the army before WW1. That forum looks pretty interesting, thanks for the link.