# What really motivates people with extremely strong opinions on abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308 "2011-02-23T02:12:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/181 "2011-02-26T23:31:02Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > **It frightens me that I often see people advocating the death penalty against pro-choicers.** Not death penalty against pro-abortionists, but on abortionists specifically. And before you ask, I don’t personally support such a law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/182 "2011-02-26T23:37:27Z")
They’re called doctors, not “abortionists.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/183 "2011-02-27T18:22:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Not death penalty against pro-abortionists, but on abortionists specifically. And before you ask, I don’t personally support such a law. I would support the death penalty against anyone who put a gun to any pregnant woman’s head (or knocked or drugged her unconscious) and forced her to have an abortion. As noted above, the correct term is “doctor (or gynocologist) who performs abortions.” ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/184 "2011-02-27T18:46:13Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Skammer, thanks for responding. In my hypothetical, pro-choice would mean that you would have no problem with a woman having a procedure to “get rid of” an unwanted child, as long as the child survived the procedure. It was an attempt to separate out opposition to abortion based on a belief that it is murder, from opposition to abortion based on the issues discussed in the OP and my first post (being opposed to women’s rights or women’s sexual freedom). My assumption would be that if someone truly opposed abortion only as “murder”, then they would be pro-choice (accepting of a procedure to remove the fetus from the womb), as long as the fetus would be allowed to develop. > > Boy, it is difficult to write about this topic when all the words available come with pre-attached agendas. Technical dificulties aside (and there are many of them) I would completely support any such end-of-pregnancy procedures that wouldn’t call for the death/destruction of the foetus. > [@Frylock](#): > > I’m here to stick my neck out and invite out-of-context quotation by saying: > > If one candidate advocated euthanizing children, and also had every (other) social and fiscal policy which I agree with, and the other candidate did not advocate euthanizing children, and did advocate for social and fiscal policies which I think would ruin the country, then I’ll vote for the former. > > I’d consider them murderers if they actually did the child euthanasia thing, but that’s a different question than the one “which party should I vote for?” There are a lot of other things to consider in the latter case. Would you do the same if instead it were legalizing slavery? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re called doctors, not “abortionists.” > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I would support the death penalty against anyone who put a gun to any pregnant woman’s head (or knocked or drugged her unconscious) and forced her to have an abortion. > > As noted above, the correct term is “doctor (or gynocologist) who performs abortions.” The correct therm can be whatever it is, some of us will still call them “abortionists”, we do it for fun and provides for no confusion. You may now proceed to insert your objections to the term into such personal bodily orifice as may cause you the geatest pleasure or satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/185 "2011-02-27T21:06:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You may now proceed to insert your objections to the term into such personal bodily orifice as may cause you the geatest pleasure or satisfaction. When you’re posting in Great Debates, you will stick to the Great Debates standard of civility. This doesn’t meet it. In the future post stuff like this in the Pit if you have to say it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/186 "2011-02-27T21:47:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When you’re posting in Great Debates, you will stick to the Great Debates standard of civility. This doesn’t meet it. In the future post stuff like this in the Pit if you have to say it at all. My mistake. I apologise. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/187 "2011-02-27T23:08:52Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Suppose that tomorrow a pharmaceutical company announces that they have perfected an artificial womb. Any time a woman has an abortion, the fetus is now removed and placed in the artificial womb where it can be raised as successfully as if it were being carried to term. The woman no longer has any rights to the child and never has any contact or responsibility again. From the woman’s perspective her life is identical to what it would be if she had had an abortion under current circumstances; however her fetus will develop into a living baby. The artificial womb again. If only. How much do you suppose this would cost to develop? And who will be supplying the money, again? [The same government that’s proposing](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_dIxo6m_06S4/SG6mwJ3UugI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/jTBT1tEQ14U/s320/Mitz+BM+Red+White+%26+Blue+copy.jpg) $50 million in cuts to the Maternal and Child Health Block Grant that “supports state-based prenatal care programs and services for children with special needs.” $1 billion in cuts to programs at the National Institutes of Health that support “lifesaving biomedical research aimed at finding the causes and developing strategies for preventing preterm birth.” Nearly $1 billion in cuts to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for its preventive health programs, including to its preterm birth studies. Plus, of course, stripping all funding of Planned Parenthood. Women are having trouble finding somewhere to get affordable pap smears, cancer screening and birth control that won’t affect them adversely – I hope these wombs will come in vending machines. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/188 "2011-03-04T01:47:32Z")
People often engage in “circular logic”, in which they develop an opinion and THEN attempt to justify it. If abortion is murder and therefore wrong, then why do so many of these same people condone the death penalty, war, and even lethal self-defense? Of course, they develop many “exemptions” to their logic, often to the point where their primary premise becomes an exemption. Still, since the primary premise is the starting point, it cannot be permitted to be the end point, unless exempt from the exemptions, including itself. An example is the woman who files for public assistance because she’s single, saddled with 2-3 kids, uneducated for a meaningful job, and little time for a practical job. So why did she choose to become pregnant in the first place? Well, it’s her natural “right” to procreate. But if she couldn’t support them, then why didn’t she use birth control pills or other contraceptives? Well, her RELIGION forbids her from using contraception. Pardon me, but isn’t that the SAME religion that prohibits her from having premarital sex in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/189 "2011-03-04T19:52:10Z")
When I was younger I was exposed to a lot of people who were very seriously anti-abortion. Some of them truly believed that abortion was murdering a baby, and were as horrified by the thought of an abortion as I am at the thought of someone just smashing a year old baby’s head against the wall. These people were generally very religious. They thought that humans had value because God magically implanted a soul into them. They believed that this soul was implanted at conception, and because it possessed a soul it has as much value as any other person. Possibly more value, because it was an innocent soul who had not sinned yet. Of course, it hadn’t received baptism yet, so I don’t know exactly how all that’s supposed to work out. Limbo maybe? Or maybe the whole thing is just horribly illogical. However, there were also some anti-abortion people who seemed to think that babies existed as a punishment for sex. These people seemed to be rather anti-sex in general, and I never had any idea why someone would want to be anti-sex. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/190 "2011-03-04T20:03:04Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Technical dificulties aside (and there are many of them) I would completely support any such end-of-pregnancy procedures that wouldn’t call for the death/destruction of the foetus. > > Would you do the same if instead it were legalizing slavery? It’s harder for me to imagine a plausible candidate who combines legalizing slavery with other generally liberal viewpoints. But if that’s the only thing he said that I disagree with somehow, and “no slavery” is the only thing the other guy said that I agreed with, then yes, the slavery legalizer is the one I’d vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/191 "2011-03-05T01:08:06Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It’s harder for me to imagine a plausible candidate who combines legalizing slavery with other generally liberal viewpoints. But if that’s the only thing he said that I disagree with somehow, and “no slavery” is the only thing the other guy said that I agreed with, then yes, the slavery legalizer is the one I’d vote for. I hate your position, but I gotta give you full honesty points. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/192 "2011-03-05T05:03:50Z")
There are a ton of generalizations in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/193 "2011-03-05T06:12:27Z")
So I read the whole thread, and I could do nothing but shake my head. Before I begin, though, I want to respond to this. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > We are not pro-abortion, I do not wang one woman to be forced to have an abortion, or forced to give birth. When someone says they are ‘pro-guns’, no one takes them to mean they are pro everyone being forced to own a gun. When someone says they are ‘pro-gay marriage’, no one takes them to mean they are pro everyone being forced to marry someone of the same sex. When someone says they are pro-anything, it’s usually taken to meant that they support the choice of whether or not to own a gun. So why, on earth, do you take the term ‘pro-abortion’ to mean that you believe a woman should be forced into having an abortion? It seems what we have here is a case of you realizing that that abortion, on some level, is morally abhorrent and as a result are trying to distance yourself from the action which you support, hence why you vehemently oppose the term ‘pro-abortion’, as it sounds just as bad as something like ‘pro-slavery’ or ‘pro-rape’ or ‘pro-any-distateful-action’, even though you probably have no problem calling pro-lifers ‘anti-abortion’. Pro-choice is just a misnomer. Not only does choice not exist in a vacuum, all choices aren’t equal. For example, the choice to rape someone and the choice to not rape someone are not morally equivalent. Few would call themselves ‘pro-choice’ in regards to rape for this exact reason, for labeling the two actions as mere choices ignores the fact that the two choices have very different effects on a second or third party. The fact is that pro-choicers use to choice moniker to avoid having to deal with the actual fact of the matter, which is that abortion kills a human being. Anyway, I really want to focus on two things-- the idea that a woman can have an abortion because it’s “her” body, and the idea that it’s okay to kill the unborn being they aren’t sentient. I’d be willing to bet that, at some point in time, most pro-choicers would argue that abortion is impermissible. But how do you square this with the “her body, her choice” rhetoric? At what point in time does the woman’s body stop being hers? That’s a rhetorical question, of course, because the answer is never. Unless you’re going to argue the natural consequent of “her body, her choice” which is abortion on demand at any period of time, then this rationale falls flat because, regardless of the fact that the woman’s body is still her own, you would be arguing that her ‘owning’ her own body is not grounds enough to have an abortion. And if merely ‘owning’ her body isn’t grounds enough to have an abortion, then what grounds are there to have an abortion? (If you’re one of those people who believe abortion should be legal right up until birth then congratulations! You’re arguments will necessarily be consistent within themselves). Looking through this thread, it appears as if the grounds rests on the notion that a woman can have an abortion because the unborn has no right to not be aborted, on account of it not being sentient. But this leads to the question as to whether or not it’s permissible to kill those who are [asleep, in a coma or vegetative state or under the effect of some anaesthesia](http://web.me.com/adrian.owen/site/VS_Publications_files/Laureys-2004-LancetNeurol.pdf), as they’re brain function is not only severely limited, but they display neither wakefulness nor awareness (presumably, you need some manner of awareness for sentience)? If not, then under what basis can you say that the unborn shouldn’t be killed because they’re not sentient while simultaneously arguing that someone who isn’t sentient at present should be killed? You could argue that the latter will be sentient in the future, thus they shouldn’t be killed today, but the same would hold true for the unborn. The fact is that you cannot use sentience as grounds to define someone out of rights, as that would also require defining someone born out of rights when they feel to meet said criteria. That is, if you’re going to apply the standard uniformly. And for anyone interested, [here](http://www.michelepolak.com/200fall10/Weekly_Schedule_files/Strickler.pdf) is something detailing abortion attitudes in the U.S., which is quite an interesting read if you take the time. Will dispel a few of the myths in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/194 "2011-03-05T08:27:42Z")
Well, how does this grab you: I’m okay with elective abortion up to birth in principle, and I’m comfortable knowing that medical ethics and training is likely to intervene, with doctors declining to terminate a late pregnancy (perhaps inducing it instead). Basically, on this issue I’ll put my trust in doctors more than legislators. I expect that a women in her ninth month who demanded and elective abortion would be deferred by an ethical doctor who is familiar with the physical and emotional stresses of late pregnancy and recognizes that such a demand may be impulsive. Additionally, I don’t care in the least if the fetus has “person” status or “human” status, or can be labeled “alive” or even “sentient.” We have two people (or one person and one fetus, with whatever additional labels you want) whose rights (however many the fetus has) are in conflict, and I side with the mother in the interest of cost/benefit analysis. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/195 "2011-03-05T08:53:46Z")
Speaking to the global issue, I’m pro-abortion (pro-choice) on the basis of personal experience. IMHO, my parents would have been better off if mom had terminated me. Tough for me, of course, but I wouldn’t be here to care. Instead, there would have been other children, each by other partners (probably), and those would have had (I think) a better life. As for the OP, I think the answer is as simple as that it’s an either-or proposition. Abortion is okay or it isn’t. I don’t buy that anti-abortion is about punishing women or anything like that. It’s about whether moms may terminate unexpected folks like me. You’re okay with that or you ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/196 "2011-03-05T09:16:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, how does this grab you: > > I’m okay with elective abortion up to birth in principle, and I’m comfortable knowing that medical ethics and training is likely to intervene, with doctors declining to terminate a late pregnancy (perhaps inducing it instead). Basically, on this issue I’ll put my trust in doctors more than legislators. I expect that a women in her ninth month who demanded and elective abortion would be deferred by an ethical doctor who is familiar with the physical and emotional stresses of late pregnancy and recognizes that such a demand may be impulsive. That doesn’t grab me at all, as it somehow rests on the assumption that all doctors are good and noble human beings, and that none would do something, like, induce labor and stab the fetus-- I mean baby-- in the back of the head with a pair of scissors (surely you get the point, yes?). The whole “doctor vs. legislator” deal is a false conflict. Legislators aren’t always evil and scheming, and doctors aren’t always good and noble. > [@](#): > > Additionally, I don’t care in the least if the fetus has “person” status or “human” status, or can be labeled “alive” or even “sentient.” We have two people (or one person and one fetus, with whatever additional labels you want) whose rights (however many the fetus has) are in conflict, and I side with the mother in the interest of cost/benefit analysis. A slave and a slave owner have competing rights also, but you’d never side with the slave owner on the basis that the other party is morally inferior to him, would you? I’m sure you wouldn’t. I’ve never quite understood this whole “competing rights” business. What competing rights? I don’t think you would argue that a woman’s right to engage in sex is stronger than the right of the fetus, which results from that action, to be killed, as you’d be proposing what regards to wanton sex with no regards to the consequences. Further, I hope you wouldn’t argue that the right to privacy entails the right to act against another, otherwise you’d have to explain to me why I couldn’t drag some hapless woman into my basement, perform unspeakable acts upon her, and then claim that my right to privacy prevents the authorities from barging into my home and arresting me. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/197 "2011-03-05T09:21:49Z")
The above should say not be killed\* (Why can’t we edit posts after 5 minutes???) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/198 "2011-03-05T09:27:32Z")
It’s ALWAYS been my contention that if my biological mother (I’m adopted) knew about my disability before birth, I would’ve been aborted. (my Mom disputes this, why is for another thread) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/199 "2011-03-05T09:36:06Z")
To be clear, I’m ALL FOR abortion in the case of rape and incest, and STRONGLY favor, birth control access and “safer sex” education, for teens. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308/200 "2011-03-05T11:38:06Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > That doesn’t grab me at all, as it somehow rests on the assumption that all doctors are good and noble human beings, and that none would do something, like, induce labor and stab the fetus-- I mean baby-- in the back of the head with a pair of scissors (surely you get the point, yes?). The whole “doctor vs. legislator” deal is a false conflict. Legislators aren’t always evil and scheming, and doctors aren’t always good and noble. I didn’t say anything about newborn head-stabbing or all doctors being noble or legislators always being evil. You’re responding to points I didn’t make. Does this strike you as honest debate? > [@](#): > > A slave and a slave owner have competing rights also, but you’d never side with the slave owner on the basis that the other party is morally inferior to him, would you? I’m sure you wouldn’t. I don’t care about the relative morality issue. And is the slave inside the slave owner’s body? If not, you have a failed analogy and I see no reason to consider it as a valid response. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you would argue that a woman’s right to engage in sex is stronger than the right of the fetus Well, I figure she can have as much sex as she wants, and she can abort any time she wants, so… yes, I would argue so if the issues _have_ to be linked, though I see no reason why they should be. > [@](#): > > which results from that action, to be killed, as you’d be proposing what regards to wanton sex with no regards to the consequences. So now it’s “wanton” sex that matters? Her moral code is an issue with you? Why? On second thought, I don’t care why. It’s not a relevant issue. > [@](#): > > Further, I hope you wouldn’t argue that the right to privacy entails the right to act against another, otherwise you’d have to explain to me why I couldn’t drag some hapless woman into my basement, perform unspeakable acts upon her, and then claim that my right to privacy prevents the authorities from barging into my home and arresting me. Is the hapless woman inside your body against your will (it’s actually suggested that you’re somewhat insider her body against _her_ will, but no matter). My explanation to you is your hypothetical kidnapping/rape/imprisonment is not analogous to pregnancy, and I’m confident you know it but want to score some cheap emotional points. If you honestly believe the two situations are analogous, what is your proposed criminal penalty for the woman who gets an abortion? Is it comparable to that of a man who commits first-degree kidnapping and rape (a life sentence in some states)? If not, will you admit that you _don’t_ truly believe the cases are analogous? For that matter, if all abortion laws were struck down in the U.S., what do you honestly think will occur? And as a pre-emptive gesture, I’m not interested in insulting you personally nor are you likely to provoke me into doing so. Your stated views, though, are irrational and short-sighted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-really-motivates-people-with-extremely-strong-opinions-on-abortion/572308.md?page=11)