# What religion (if any) are star fleet humans (of the sttng era)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820 "2007-05-20T15:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/1 "2007-05-20T15:28:50Z")
I’ve heard it said that the basic structure of the universe for humans is a modified form of communism. There are no rich people or poor people, just people of different ranks who’s needs and desires are all fulfilled. Russian communism was Atheistic. I believe China’s is also. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/2 "2007-05-20T15:53:04Z")
Some of the alien species in Trek had religion, but IIRC, it was strongly implied that humanity had given up religion centuries ago. In TWOK, McCoy says, “According to myth, the Earth was created in six days. Now, watch out! Here comes Genesis! It’ll do it in six minutes!” ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/3 "2007-05-20T16:07:17Z")
These issues aren’t really spelled out very clearly. There is SOME sort of economy there, and people do seem to get paid for their jobs, though with the use of replicators and such, it doesn’t seem like there are status goods that can be easily lauded over others as a sign of wealth, and psychologically most people in the Federation just don’t seem to care or “get” the idea of amassing lots of wealth over and above what others have: technology is good enough to give everyone a good standard of living and most seem satisfied with that. As for religion, it’s clear that some cultures still have religious convictions, but most of the humans don’t seem to be believers, or at least the subject is mostly avoided in the show so we can’t really say for sure how pervasive any remaining religion is. I think in part this is because a universe with thousands of cultures all with their own quaint but incompatible religious mythos, most of which developed in ignorance of all the rest despite claims to being universal… well, that complicates things. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/4 "2007-05-20T16:19:39Z")
In “Who Watches the Watchers” Picard becomes a god figure for a local planetary species. When it’s suggested that he give them a set of Commandments to follow he explicitly states that humanity as a whole gave up religion centuries earlier. Earlier in “Who Mourns for Adonais?” Kirk flatly rejects the notion of worshipping Apollo but I can’t recall offhand if he specifically commented on the state of religion amongst humans at the time. McCoy’s reference to the biblical creation myth as “myth” doesn’t necessarily mean that he doesn’t believe it or comment on the state of belief in it amongst humans in general. Many scholars who identify as Christians don’t believe in the literal truth of the six-day creation story and it’s often called a “myth.” ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Holck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Matt\_Holck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt_Holck)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/5 "2007-05-20T16:23:44Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Kirk flatly rejects the notion of worshipping Apollo but I can’t recall offhand if he specifically commented on the state of religion amongst humans at the time. [/QUOTE] I think it was along the lines of `“we don’t want to be shepards” ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/6 "2007-05-20T16:27:07Z")
The ST movie Shatner directed in which they travel to and find a God-like alien who needs a starship probably has some dialogue that would enlighten this question. Problem is, you’d have to watch that movie to find out. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/7 "2007-05-20T16:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lobsang] Russian communism was Atheistic. I believe China’s is also. [/QUOTE] There’s no inherent relationship between communism (or socialism) and atheism. Either can exist without the other. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/8 "2007-05-20T16:46:42Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] There’s no inherent relationship between communism (or socialism) and atheism. Either can exist without the other. [/QUOTE] With all due respect, is there any reason to take your authority on this matter over that of Karl Marx? He made it quite clear that communism and faith are incompatible. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/9 "2007-05-20T16:52:21Z")
Since no society in history has ever applied Marxian communism it doesn’t seem to matter what Marx said or believed. In practice, communist states have always substituted a state religion and repressed the native religions of the area. The merits of this system can be debated, but it seems to have been extremely successful in perpetuating the regime, as in North Korea today. You could say that communism _always_ requires religion. Just not religion in the conventional sense. Atheism and religion are overlapping, not mutually exclusive, categories in this real-world sense. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/10 "2007-05-20T17:01:08Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] With all due respect, is there any reason to take your authority on this matter over that of Karl Marx? He made it quite clear that communism and faith are incompatible. [/QUOTE] If that’s your argument (i.e. “we’ll define true communism only and just however Marx described it as being, in detail”), then you’ve negated the question of Russia and China, both of which Marx didn’t believe fit his professed ideology either. Otherwise, well, there is the plain logical and historical fact that, well, communism and faith are not incompatible and can indeed co-exist (and have co-existed), regardless of the situations of Russia and China. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/11 "2007-05-20T17:08:45Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] The ST movie Shatner directed in which they travel to and find a God-like alien who needs a starship probably has some dialogue that would enlighten this question. Problem is, you’d have to watch that movie to find out. [/QUOTE] And unfortunately, no one ever has, so we’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Holck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Matt\_Holck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt_Holck)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/12 "2007-05-20T17:08:47Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Earlier in “Who Mourns for Adonais?” [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Carolyn] "I must say Apollo I’m sure that’s very flattering but I must get on with my work I’m a scientist My particular study is ancient civilization, relics and Myths Surely you know I’ve only been studying Love you? Illogically, I’m not some simple shepardess you can awe I’m I could no more love you than I could love a new species of bacteria Is that the secrete of your power over woman The thunder bolts you throw?" [/QUOTE] ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/h3S_tv-hWy8/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/h3S_tv-hWy8?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [It’s out of My Hands](http://voltic.com/0/lunar/OutOfMyHands.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/13 "2007-05-20T17:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] The ST movie Shatner directed in which they travel to and find a God-like alien who needs a starship probably has some dialogue that would enlighten this question. Problem is, you’d have to watch that movie to find out. [/QUOTE] Actually, it makes it’s point in a rather subtle way. Kirk does ask, “Uh, excuse me, but what does God need with a starship?” And you people just need to stop being wimps about the movie. It’s _not_ that bad. I can certainly think of other big budget films which were way worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/14 "2007-05-20T17:16:24Z")
In teh “ancient Rome” TOS episode, McCoy said something like “if you are talking religion, we have varied beliefs” or “we represent many beliefs” Brian ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/15 "2007-05-20T17:33:17Z")
Same religion as [Harry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190401) [Potter.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=259982) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/16 "2007-05-20T17:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=N9IWP] In teh “ancient Rome” TOS episode, McCoy said something like “if you are talking religion, we have varied beliefs” or “we represent many beliefs” Brian [/QUOTE] Also, Uhura seemed rather excited by the discovery that the oppressed believers didn’t worship the “Sun God” but “the Son of God”, as if that belief had some resonance with her. Basically, Classic Trek humanity was more open to religion than was Next Gen humanity. Why? Because Rodenberry had to be subtler in his anti-religion biases back in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/17 "2007-05-20T18:00:19Z")
Well, in the movie **Generations** Picard experiences a family Christmas with an illusory family while in the Nexus, so there is evidence that he is probably a Christian. Also, although I can’t cite the episode, I distinctly remember a Christmas party being thrown on **Voyager**. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/18 "2007-05-20T18:09:55Z")
> [@](#): > > In practice, communist states have always substituted a state religion and repressed the native religions of the area. The merits of this system can be debated, but it seems to have been extremely successful in perpetuating the regime, as in North Korea today. Aren’t (or weren’t) many Latin American countries simultaneously Communist and Catholic? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/19 "2007-05-20T18:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] If that’s your argument (i.e. “we’ll define true communism only and just however Marx described it as being, in detail”), then you’ve negated the question of Russia and China, both of which Marx didn’t believe fit his professed ideology either. [/QUOTE] Marx died in 1883. He never lived to see a Communist revolution (unless you count the short-lived Paris Commune). ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/20 "2007-05-20T18:22:12Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane] Well, in the movie **Generations** Picard experiences a family Christmas with an illusory family while in the Nexus, so there is evidence that he is probably a Christian. Also, although I can’t cite the episode, I distinctly remember a Christmas party being thrown on **Voyager**. [/QUOTE] Doesn’t mean much. My family isn’t Christian, but we have Christmas just for the sake of the celebration. Many holidays become almost entirely secularized. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820.md?page=2)