# What religion (if any) are star fleet humans (of the sttng era)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820 "2007-05-20T15:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/61 "2007-05-21T07:02:15Z")
From [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Human\_religion](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Human_religion) > [@](#): > > Gene Roddenberry himself is said to have rejected the idea of religion lasting into Humanity’s future. Ronald D. Moore commented regarding the fate of specific religions in Trek history: “Gene felt very strongly that all of our contemporary Earth religions would be gone by the 23rd century, and while few of us around here actually share that opinion, we feel that we should leave this part of the Trek universe alone.” “It was a core tenet of Gene’s Trek.” > > Brannon Braga said that “In Gene Roddenberry’s imagining of the future […] religion is completely gone. Not a single human being on Earth believes in any of the nonsense that has plagued our civilization for thousands of years. This was an important part of Roddenberry’s mythology. He, himself, was a secular humanist and made it well-known to writers of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation that religion and superstition and mystical thinking were not to be part of his universe. On Roddenberry’s future Earth, everyone is an atheist. And that world is the better for it.” Of course, there was the whole “prophets” vs “worm hole aliens” deal… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/62 "2007-05-21T09:56:14Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] Well, Picard refuses to worship, or even respect, Q, who makes it abundantly clear that he is a God. [/QUOTE] Picard: “You are not God! The universe could not be so poorly organised” - Or something very like it, as Picard, supposedly, wakes up in the afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/63 "2007-05-21T11:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Earlier in “Who Mourns for Adonais?” Kirk flatly rejects the notion of worshipping Apollo but I can’t recall offhand if he specifically commented on the state of religion amongst humans at the time [/QUOTE] IIRC, he mentioned that one god was enough. Although whether he that in a sarcastic manner is up for debate. The wedding we see in “Balance of Terror” seems to be secular as Kirk himself leads the ceremony. And talking of McCoy’s reference to the myth of genesis, in The Cage, Pike is told that his hellish illusion is from an old legend. By the time we get to TNG, I would have thought that humans were a tad more cynical, having gone through more meetings with god-like aliens lording it over other races, to want to actual praise or worship them seems a bit much. Perhaps they might prove that one of these aliens created their universe for a larf, but I don’t think they’d worship him/her/it/them for it. [QUOTE=vivalostwages] Otherwise: in TOS ep. “Dagger of the Mind,” there was mention of a Christmas party in the science lab or something. [/QUOTE] I just removed some errant trivia from the Wiki page on that episode that said Christmas was still celebrated, then noted below that office parties clearly haven’t changed at all 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/64 "2007-05-21T13:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Babylon 5 had a throwaway line indicating that at there’d been at least two female Popes. [/QUOTE] B5 also had that ep in which the various cultures were presenting information about their religions and Sinclair brought representatives from all of Earth’s religions (along with a token atheist or two). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/65 "2007-05-21T16:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] B5 also had that ep in which the various cultures were presenting information about their religions and Sinclair brought representatives from all of Earth’s religions (along with a token atheist or two). [/QUOTE] Notable thing about that scene: Every alien race had only **one** religion (and one language and one culture generally), while humans had a multiplicity. But that’s a hoary staple of SF – any alien species is presumed to be monocultural unless conflict between two or more of its cultures is part of the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Holck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Matt\_Holck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt_Holck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/66 "2007-05-21T16:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] But that’s a hoary staple of SF – any alien species is presumed to be monocultural unless conflict between two or more of its cultures is part of the plot. [/QUOTE] It’s like the planets the aliens elvolved on are entirely desert or frozen over or something ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/67 "2007-05-21T21:12:23Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] If that’s your argument (i.e. “we’ll define true communism only and just however Marx described it as being, in detail”), then you’ve negated the question of Russia and China, both of which Marx didn’t believe fit his professed ideology either. [/QUOTE] That’s an over-extrapolation. I was countering a single assertion that generalized communism: “There’s no inherent relationship between communism (or socialism) and atheism”. I was not attempting to counter any assertions about any specific communist governments. I don’t even know if any were made. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/68 "2007-05-21T22:11:18Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] The ST movie Shatner directed in which they travel to and find a God-like alien who needs a starship probably has some dialogue that would enlighten this question. Problem is, you’d have to watch that movie to find out. [/QUOTE] KIRK: [raises hand] Um, excuse me. Why does God need a starship? Maybe you should’ve answered that question **before you undertook to direct this stinker of a movie,** Shatner! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/69 "2007-05-21T22:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Notable thing about that scene: Every alien race had only **one** religion (and one language and one culture generally), while humans had a multiplicity. But that’s a hoary staple of SF – any alien species is presumed to be monocultural unless conflict between two or more of its cultures is part of the plot. [/QUOTE] I agree that it’s a hoary trope and it’s been a while since I’ve seen the ep but wasn’t there dialogue that the aliens were presenting their major or dominant religion? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/70 "2007-05-21T22:24:16Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] I agree that it’s a hoary trope and it’s been a while since I’ve seen the ep but wasn’t there dialogue that the aliens were presenting their major or dominant religion? [/QUOTE] And it’s important to remember that “Parliament of Dreams” was a very early episode. In the course of the series we do see differences in the religious practices of the other species (the Minbari warrior caste is almost agnostic, as it has to be to be an effective balance to the religious caste; there are several varieties of Narn spirituality (and revelation is not closed for them…witness the Book of G’Kar); I would guess that there are independent denominations which focus on particular Centauri deities). ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/71 "2007-05-22T00:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=NoClueBoy] Anyone else remember Pike’s illusion of Hell on Talos IV? [/QUOTE] “From a fable you once heard in childhood.” As for the Klingons, in the TOS episode “Day of the Dove,” the Klingon commander dude says that the Klingons have no devil. But in the TNG episode “Devil’s Due,” Ardra turns into Feklar. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/72 "2007-05-22T04:32:37Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s an over-extrapolation. I was countering a single assertion that generalized communism: “There’s no inherent relationship between communism (or socialism) and atheism”. [/quote] In that case, your counter makes even less sense than I gave it the benefit of, because as you probably know, there are explicitly Christian communisms, thus pretty well establishing the general idea that there is no inherent relationship. > [@](#): > > I was not attempting to counter any assertions about any specific communist governments. I don’t even know if any were made. My advice: read what people are talking about. It’s often worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Holck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Matt\_Holck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matt_Holck)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/73 "2007-05-22T04:47:34Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] And it’s important to remember that “Parliament of Dreams” was a very early episode. In the course of the series we do see differences in the religious practices of the other species (the Minbari warrior caste is almost agnostic, as it has to be to be an effective balance to the religious caste; there are several varieties of Narn spirituality (and revelation is not closed for them…witness the Book of G’Kar); I would guess that there are independent denominations which focus on particular Centauri deities). [/QUOTE] um maybe I should get watch the series ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/74 "2007-05-22T07:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] In that case, your counter makes even less sense than I gave it the benefit of, because as you probably know, there are explicitly Christian communisms, thus pretty well establishing the general idea that there is no inherent relationship. [/quote] There are also [Atheists for Jesus](http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com), but that doesn’t mean they’re theists. If my counter makes no sense to you, then why comment on it at all? Why not ask a question instead, in order to clear up your understanding? An altered form of communism is an _altered_ form of communism. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/75 "2007-05-22T12:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=Morbo] As for the Klingons, in the TOS episode “Day of the Dove,” the Klingon commander dude says that the Klingons have no devil. But in the TNG episode “Devil’s Due,” Ardra turns into Feklar. Go figure. [/QUOTE] Feklar is described as something like “the guardian of the underworld” as I recall. That doesn’t automatically translate into “devil.” Any number of religions have gods with dominion over the realm of the dead who don’t equate with the Christian devil or Satan. Also re the Klingons, at Worf and Jadzia’s wedding the story is told that the first Klingon warrior slew the Klingon gods. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/76 "2007-05-22T16:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] There are also [Atheists for Jesus](http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com), but that doesn’t mean they’re theists. [/quote] Not even slightly on point, but okay. > [@](#): > > If my counter makes no sense to you, then why comment on it at all? Why not ask a question instead, in order to clear up your understanding? An altered form of communism is an _altered_ form of communism. Again, because I just assumed that you wouldn’t play the True Scotsman game. You were the one who came in here, proudly asserting that you hadn’t read the thread and tossing Karl Marx into the fray (when no one else had been that specific). Communism as a system and a term is not limited to what Karl Marx wanted it to be: it existed as a term long before him, and developed in a hundred different directions during and after his life. > **[Christian communism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism)** > > Christian communism is a theological view that the teachings of Jesus compel Christians to support religious communism. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact dates when communistic ideas and practices in Christianity began, many Christian communists argue that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles in the New Testament, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. Many advocates o There is no reason to take seriously your assertion that Marx’s belief that religion was incompatible with communism as the only opinion that matters. It is particularly irrelevant in this thread when the two given examples of communism aren’t even countries that fit Marx’s picture of what communism “should be” either, in a thread devoted to discussing a potential FICTIONAL communism. As to the general point, it is a plain fact of obvious practice that communism is not incompatible with religion. Not “altered” communism, but communism: “the political theory or system in which all property and wealth is owned in a classless society by all the members of that society.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/77 "2007-05-22T16:55:26Z")
I agree with what’s already been written about Roddenberry’s hostility to organized religion. And the show’s writers, in each of ST’s incarnations, have generally steered clear of discussing humanity’s religious practices - if any - by the 2360s, which is when ST:TNG takes place. Too controversial for many viewers, and not germane to the typical ST episode. Vulcan, Bajoran and Klingon spiritualism and religious beliefs have all had a much more thorough examination than those of Earth. The Federation, consistent with its democratic and individualistic precepts, protects religious freedom. From the on-screen evidence, though, it seems that most human beings of Picard’s era are either outright atheists or agnostic, or simply have a very private spiritual life. This is consistent with U.S. Navy practice - chaplains are prohibited from proselytizing aboard ship, IIRC, and must provide nondenominational prayers and services when among those of different faiths. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/78 "2007-05-22T17:11:49Z")
I think the overall issue on both religion and economics for the Federation is that not much thought or time is put into exploring either of them. I think in many cases, while this might have fit Roddenberry’s wishes without also pissing people off, it’s also left some gaping plausibility plotholes, particularly in the case of economics. Amusingly, these are all in the order of the technology. How does the Heisenberg Uncertainty Compensator work? Very well, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/79 "2007-05-22T17:18:34Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] I think the overall issue on both religion and economics for the Federation is that not much thought or time is put into exploring either of them. I think in many cases, while this might have fit Roddenberry’s wishes without also pissing people off, it’s also left some gaping plausibility plotholes, particularly in the case of economics. Amusingly, these are all in the order of the technology. How does the Heisenberg Uncertainty Compensator work? Very well, thanks! [/QUOTE] That’s what I like about _Babylon 5_ – for a space opera, it’s a bit more realistic/pessimistic about such things. One episode was about a labor strike among the docking-bay workers. Imagine a labor strike in the ST universe! You can’t!\* Nor anything like President Clark’s gradual usurpation of absolute power or the resulting civil war. (There was once a brief civil war in the Federation but that was because of a Dominion/Founders/Shapeshifters plot.) \*But see Leslie Fish’s classic filksong, “Wobblies From Space.” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820/80 "2007-05-22T17:31:08Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] As to the general point, it is a plain fact of obvious practice that communism is not incompatible with religion. Not “altered” communism, but communism: “the political theory or system in which all property and wealth is owned in a classless society by all the members of that society.” [/QUOTE] Just ask [the Shakers.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakerism) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-religion-if-any-are-star-fleet-humans-of-the-sttng-era/404820.md?page=5)