# What restrictions (if any) should be in place for content in creative writing classes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256 "2012-02-18T17:55:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/21 "2012-02-19T15:56:58Z")
Having recently taken my university’s official “sexual harassment training course” and examination, there is absolutely no question that at my university the student would suffer the same fate. Creative writing does not mean “no holds barred” and no reasonable person as defined under the sexual harassment law(s) would assume such. Further, the student shows that he needs to attend a civics or American government course: > [@](#): > > Corlett said he was under the impression that there were no restrictions on what he could write about in his journal. > > “The real issue is the First Amendment,” Corlett said. “It’s about academic freedom and about due process. These are the real issues of the case, and the sooner we can get past the titillation of it and see those issues, the better.” No, the First Amendment does not permit you to write anything you want in any context whatsoever. And yes if he was one of my students I would have put him into the system as well. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/22 "2012-02-19T15:59:18Z")
“I think I’m going to implement a “no page tear out rule” too so you’ll know you’re seeing everything I’ve written. I’m starting to like this vulnerability, it’s exacting.” Ugh, ugh, ugh. I hated people like him in college. Pretentious-ass people who think they’re Hemingway. Dude, consider this your tortured artist experience and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/23 "2012-02-19T16:12:51Z")
Did I read the journal correctly… (it’s hard to tell if the entry by the instructor was really by the instructor)? But it appears that the instructor tore out a page and warned the student he was heading into an inappropriate area and to continue would result in his being reported. Thereafter, he continued and was reported. Yeah, IMHO it’s banhammer time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/24 "2012-02-19T16:34:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Did I read the journal correctly… (it’s hard to tell if the entry by the instructor was really by the instructor)? But it appears that the instructor tore out a page and warned the student he was heading into an inappropriate area and to continue would result in his being reported. Thereafter, he continued and was reported. Yeah, IMHO it’s banhammer time. I’m not reading the journal, but if this is the case, I reverse my opinion. If he was warned not to do it, and did it anyway, than he pretty much asked for what he got. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/25 "2012-02-19T16:41:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Did I read the journal correctly… (it’s hard to tell if the entry by the instructor was really by the instructor)? But it appears that the instructor tore out a page and warned the student he was heading into an inappropriate area and to continue would result in his being reported. Thereafter, he continued and was reported. Yeah, IMHO it’s banhammer time. I agree. The student was told that some areas were off limits. In that case, the disciplinary action was legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/26 "2012-02-19T21:44:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The student may have violated whatever policies the school has regarding sexual harassment or creating a hostile environment. Really, does anyone think this was just an innocent mistake on the part of the student? It has been my understanding that an essential element of sexual harassment is continuing or repeated conduct. That is, for a person to actually commit “sexual harassment”, they must continue after being told/warned that their behavior or comments is unwanted. For example, asking someone for a date once is not sexual harassment, no matter how sexually charged you make the request. If they tell you that they are not interested and to please not ask again, and you do, that can constitute sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/27 "2012-02-20T02:29:52Z")
I haven’t read the notebook (I can’t read the cursive well) but there is a difference between occasionally having sexual content involving a fictional situation or in a general way as opposed to one directly aimed at the teacher. Also a bit OT and nitpicky but: > [@](#): > > The daybooks were a place for students to collect unsensored thoughts, Is this is a typo or supposed to mean thoughts that are not detected > [@](#): > > Corlett, who lives in Lake Orion, is flummoxed by the turn of events. First time I’ve seen flummoxed used casually ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/28 "2012-02-20T03:22:09Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I haven’t read the notebook (I can’t read the cursive well) I can’t believe it. You spend so much time reading and writing nonsense and you can’t read handwriting? Learn it, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/29 "2012-02-20T03:26:41Z")
No, don’t. That way, as I said in the secret code thread, in 50 years when it’s just me and Qin, I can write rude things about him and he won’t know what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/30 "2012-02-20T04:39:24Z")
For those who haven’t read the journal, here’s the note from the teacher that was in it: > [@](#): > > Note from Mrs Mitzelfeld: > > Dear Joseph: > > While your writing is fair, it is completely inappropriate. I have broken your rule and torn out the offending pages. If this continues I am obligated to report [del]this[/del] you to the Dean. Otherwise I shall consider this matter closed. > > Sincerely > > Mrs Mitzelfeld ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/31 "2012-02-20T08:53:40Z")
In a bizarre (if true) twist, the student [claims that he made up the warning](http://jezebel.com/5886036/classmates-were-afraid-of-hot-for-teacher-essayist). ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/32 "2012-02-20T09:13:15Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > In a bizarre (if true) twist, the student [claims that he made up the warning](http://jezebel.com/5886036/classmates-were-afraid-of-hot-for-teacher-essayist). Sigh. He really is clueless, isn’t he? Not just claiming he made up comments his teacher made about his work, but thinking “I’m a creative writer” is some kind of Get Out of Jail Free card for acting like a creepy weirdo. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/33 "2012-02-21T00:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > When I asked Corlett why he chose to make up a note calling his work inappropriate and threatening to report him to the Dean (which Mitzelfeld in fact later did), he said, “who knows?” > > When pressed, he said he was “a creative writer” and that he was “just riffing.” Nonetheless, the note implies he was aware that his writing might be offensive, and that there could be consequences. Ah, one of the various Krusty the Klown defenses: “It was a joke! When you give me that look, it was a joke!” Seriously, this guy is acting as if he’s fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/34 "2012-02-21T01:04:03Z")
“It’s a coffee-table book.” ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/35 "2012-02-21T01:10:02Z")
Even in the regular composition classes, some of us warn students not to write out fantasies of committing crimes. To be fair, though, the vast majority of students don’t even consider such topics. We did have one guy, years ago, who wrote an essay about raping and killing the professor who taught the class. Even if he was joking, it certainly wasn’t laughed off as a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/36 "2013-07-24T16:11:07Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > There’s no way to construct a single set of clear-cut rules in advance to cover every possible type of objectionable writing without stifling creativity. Essentially, there’s an unspoken “don’t be a jerk” rule in situations like this. The journal entries are not merely works of art, they’re also elements of the social contract that exists between the teacher and all the students in the class, and if you write something so transgressive that it violates that contract, you shouldn’t be surprised if there are consequences. Yes, unspoken rules are a FINE basis for jurisprudence and for rule-making in general … it’s the great unspoken rule of rule-making! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/37 "2013-07-24T17:07:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Yes, unspoken rules are a FINE basis for jurisprudence and for rule-making in general … it’s the great unspoken rule of rule-making! :dubious: Either some troll/spammer just got redacted, or you’ve thought about this for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/38 "2013-07-24T18:15:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Either some troll/spammer just got redacted, or you’ve thought about this for a very long time. No troll/spammer got redacted, and while I have not given it great thought of late, I am leery of unspoken rules in general. To say more about that would violate Unspoken Rule No. 37 … and nobody wants that! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/39 "2013-07-24T20:36:13Z")
Is that the rule about resurrecting year and a half dead zombies just to make inane comments? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256/40 "2013-07-24T20:41:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Either some troll/spammer just got redacted, or you’ve thought about this for a very long time. It’s my fault. I linked it in the current thread about Corlett and I assume EC followed the link and forgot which thread he was in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-restrictions-if-any-should-be-in-place-for-content-in-creative-writing-classes/613256.md?page=3)