Having been through this (and ending up with a wonderful son - now 12 - with whom I do not get enough time to spend or enough say in his upbringing), I only blame myself. I should have ‘opted-out’ before sex, or (despite claims of wrong time of the month) insisted on being cautious. I didn’t…I wanted to ride bareback. It was a life-altering mistake - I didn’t want to become a father, especially with the woman with whom I was sleeping as mother.
Yes, we men have no after-the-fact options. I knew that before. Therefore, it was my responsibility, and I chose a riskier course. I have to accept the consequenses, and I make the best of the situation.
Quite simply, a man has nothing more than an opinion regarding an abortion decision. Know that before playing hide the salami, and accept all responsibility for protection. Or don’t have intercourse, if you’re going to complain about how protection isn’t 100%.
Well of course I (nor anyone else in this thread) said anything about morbidity/mortality (of the mother) arising from abortion. I was responding to KellyM’s unsupported assertion that pregnancy/birth is “fraught with risk of death or permanent disability”
What the hell, let’s round up to 10 per 100,000. Does anybody seriously wish to describe that situation as “fraught with risk of death”?
(pssst for Guin…KellyM didn’t supply a cite either… )
perhaps, beagle it doesn’t come up to the standard of ‘fraught w/risks’, however, the difference in risks between the two add substance to the already substantial rationale for allowing the woman to have the final decision of abortion or carrying to term.
Ok. And I suppose women who are pregnant can “raise the child or give it up for adoption, your choice”?
Maybe women just shouldn’t have kids on their own if they can’t afford to raise them on their own.
Yes, that’s a fact of biology. Child support is not, however; money doesn’t just naturally flow out of a man’s bank account.
Are you suggesting that because women are getting shafted by their biology, men should get shafted by the law?
A child support payment can be the difference between paying your rent and getting evicted, between owning a car and taking the bus to work. Sure, it’s not as bad as being pregnant, but “it could be worse” is hardly a justification.
Again, the difference between a father paying child support and a mother raising a child is that the mother chooses to give birth and pay to raise the child for 18 years. If adequate precautions are taken by either the man or the woman, and assuming the precautions work as planned, she might not have to face that decision; but in the end she always has the final say. She takes the responsibility into her own hands.
MMMmm maybe not. I tend to not spend a lot of time debating the maternal health risks of abortions (mainly because I think they are clearer pro life points to be made). However, the cite I provided earlier calls into doubt the supposed “low” mortality rate of abortions.
When dealing with maternal deaths from abortions, you’re dealing with some self-reporting issues that make it a bit hard to “trust” the numbers. I’ll be honest and say that I’m not real confident in the numbers produced by some folks in the pro life side either. It’s a murky situation at best, and I don’t think either side is standing on firm footing by making claims about the real numbers of maternal deaths from abortions in the U.S.
And of course your “substantial rationale” for maternal abortion decisions rests in large part on some assumptions make about the organism being aborted. If one doesn’t agree with those assumptions, the rationale is far from “substantial”
beagle according to the quote you lifted, these folks are accusing the people at the CDC as intentionally screwing up the data, based on their affiliation w/ abortionists???
Sorry, but if that’s the premise/conclusion of these folks, I’m gonna have to pass on them as any kind of reliable source w/o substantial backing up of that particular conclusion.
RE: the rest of your post – this thread at least ostensibly is about the decision to abort/not abort and rights of mom/dad in the scenario. The OP didn’t offer the child a vote. (that would make it more of an abortion ok/no thread anyhow). So, since at least in this thread the votes are: mom’s/ dad’s and whose should carry the day, not moms/dads/kids/ whose should carry the day, we’re back to my contention that the substantial evidence is on ‘mom’.
Well, no, they can abort the child. It’s biology. Dollars to donuts that if the biological gender roles were different, men would never even think of proposing “opting out” for women.
Many of them can, and do. It’s called “artificial insemination.”
So I noticed, but sara was the one who said, “I don’t have time to find one”.
At any rate, I don’t think that deaths from LEGAL abortions are greater than that of pregnancy. But someone brought up developing nations-most of which, abortions are in butcher shops, I would think. Or at least, safe ones are expensive as prenatal care. So the point is moot, either way. So BOTH are dangerous in developing countries.
However, even in places like the US, pregnancy, while a natural thing, is not always easy, and does have its health risks.
Once again, however, I do think it should ultimately be up to the woman to choose. I don’t think abortion should be used as birth control-I’ve heard some women claim to have had two or more. (I think at that point if I were that adament about not having kids, I’d just get the bandaid operation). BUT…it should be kept safe and legal.
I don’t have time to cite was merely my disclaimer, nobody had asked for a cite. All of my info comes from any basic biology textbook, which doesn’t do you all much good for me to cite it bibliography-style. I can certainly back it, but you might have to take a trip to the library or book store. As for the part about just looking at a pregnant woman, that’s just personal opinion. . . . any room for that here?
Oh, and Bryan, funny . . . . love your drum-roll . . . . smart ass!
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