# What rock groups feature the most virtuosity among their members? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605 "2005-07-08T16:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/41 "2005-07-09T07:37:14Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Lifeson a 9.9? I like **Rush** a lot, but most people who speak of Lifeson as a guitarist rate him as competent. I certainly don’t see him in Steve Howe, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page or Steve Morse territory. > > As for **King Crimson** , I would say that the most technically adept lineup was Belew / Bruford / Fripp / Levin. Most of the other line-ups often had some dead-weight in the mix (Greg Lake and John Wetteland come to mind). **Cartooniverse** , Levin and Bruford had lots of prior experience together (although I’m probably telling you something you already knew). And _ABWH_ is one of my favorite “ **Yes** ” albums. Lifeson is a totally underrated guitarist. I think part of that is because he is in a band with Lee/Peart. He’s kinda easy to overlook because Lee and Peart are so outstanding. Most competent guitarist I know have a hell of a time playing RUSH stuff because of the odd voicings, the time changes, etc. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Gene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Soylent\_Gene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Gene)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/42 "2005-07-09T09:07:47Z")
The Brady Kids (aka Silver Platters) doing “Time to Change” and “Sunshine Day”… Greg - 10 Marsha - 10 Peter - 10 Jan - 10 Bobby - 10 Cindy - 1 What can I say, she sucks. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/43 "2005-07-09T10:17:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah, I’m thinking about this again. You might call Clapton a great guitarist, but a virtuoso he’s not. He’s called Slowhand for a reason. His nicknames included God, so I think we need to concede him a 10. IMHO: Stevie Ray & BB King, Jimi & Jimmy Page would round out my quick grouping of 10’s Steve Howe is a 9.5 along with many others. Clapton’s playing in the Yardbirds, Cream, Derek & the Dominoes etc. was the benchmarch to compare other great guitarist to. He’s only my 5th favorite guitarist, so I put him at 10 and the 4 above him at 10. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/44 "2005-07-09T11:47:33Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > His nicknames included God, so I think we need to concede him a 10. Dude, Lemmy has also been known as God, is he a 10? > [@jrfranchi](#): > > IMHO: Stevie Ray & BB King, Jimi & Jimmy Page would round out my quick grouping of 10’s No Joe Walsh? Man you’re makin me cry. Personally I still hold Clapton responsible for killing Stevie Ray, and that alone docks him 2 points. Clapton - 8 Walsh - 10 Go America. Jack ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/45 "2005-07-09T11:53:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’d have to agree that John **Wetteland** wasn’t a great bass player- but you have to admit, he had a pretty effective fastball. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/46 "2005-07-09T14:39:12Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **Cartooniverse** - with your comment “a drummer who cannot count?” I assume you are referring to my comment about Carl Palmer. I think it was more of a pacing thing, not a count thing - he would speed up and slow down, seemingly at random. It is a problem for most drummers, but apparently a real issue for him. Oh. I truly misunderstood you. Thanks. 🙂 As for the ratings system that I ignored up there in my post, sure why not: Jon Anderson: 8.5 ( I love the man, but he’s not the prodigy the rest are. ) Chris Squire: 9.5 Steve How: Solid 10 Rick Wakeman: Solid Impermeable 10 Alan White: 9.0 Score: 9.40 An extra .550 for still making good music 35 years after they started, and that brings them up to a tidy 9.950. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/47 "2005-07-09T17:50:06Z")
**The Blues Brothers** John Belushi: 7.5 (actually had a pretty good R&B voice) Dan Ayckroyd: 6 (not a bad blues harp player, but a terrible vocalist) Donald “Duck” Dunn: 10 Alan Rubin: 10 Steve Cropper: 10 Matt “Guitar” Murphy: 10 Tom “Bones” Malone: 10 “Blue” Lou Marini: 10 Willie “Too Big” Hall: 8 Paul Shaffer: 9 Tom Scott: 10 Average: 9.1 **The HoneyDrippers** Robert Plant: 10 Jeff Beck: 10 Nile Rogers: 10 Jimmy Page: 10 Average: 10 And whoever said that Pete Townshend was only a 7, bite your tongue! He’s a 9. One notch down from the greate like Page, Clapton, Stevie Ray, etc. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/48 "2005-07-09T21:30:32Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > George [Harrison] - well, IMHO and as a guitarist - frankly, he’s not so hot. Maybe a 6 on your 10-point scale. He played what the song called for excellently and used cool jazz chords in nice places, but his chops were not much. \ > > George = 6 > \ I’m going to have to disagree with you on that one. I agree with the high regard for Ringo’s drumming, but IMO George had the most real musical talent in the group\*. Listen to his work on “Old Brown Shoe” or even, to go way back, their cover of “Til There Was You”; his solo in the latter had many people speculating that they’d brought in a ringer to record it. Interestingly, I note that the list of bands that are getting very high rankings in this thread is a near-verbatim list of my _least_ favorite bands of all time. I don’t say that to dis everyone’s taste (_de gustibus_ and all that); I’m just rather amused at what this says about my criteria for a favorite band. - In case it helps give my opinion some credibility, I’ve been playing guitar for about fifteen years. I still totally suck, but I can appreciate musical talent far more than I could before I started. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/49 "2005-07-09T21:34:49Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > His nicknames included God, so I think we need to concede him a 10. Which he despised. I’m not calling him a bad guitar player, just not a virtuoso. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/50 "2005-07-09T21:46:45Z")
I’m going to say Rush. They are fantastic. The only band that would compare is Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/51 "2005-07-10T00:40:56Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Interestingly, I note that the list of bands that are getting very high rankings in this thread is a near-verbatim list of my _least_ favorite bands of all time. I don’t say that to dis everyone’s taste (_de gustibus_ and all that); I’m just rather amused at what this says about my criteria for a favorite band. Remember, though – this is not a “favorite band” thread. Although it seems apparent that nobody’s really going to bother to do a write-up for a band whose music they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/52 "2005-07-10T01:07:24Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Interestingly, I note that the list of bands that are getting very high rankings in this thread is a near-verbatim list of my _least_ favorite bands of all time. I don’t say that to dis everyone’s taste (_de gustibus_ and all that); I’m just rather amused at what this says about my criteria for a favorite band. And that’s OK. We all listen to music for different reasons. I’m utterly bored by 4/4 time and love songs (hell, almost any lyrics whatsoever for that matter), so I naturally gravitated to prog and jazz. I didn’t do my **Crim** ratings earlier: Fripp: 10 Belew guitar: 10 Belew vocals: 7 Belew lyrics: 4 Bruford: 10 Levin: 10 ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/53 "2005-07-10T04:14:06Z")
How about Television? Anybody want to rate them? The only people in it I’ve noticed are Tom Verlaine and Richard Lloyd, who I’d say deserve close to 10. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/54 "2005-07-10T14:23:43Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > I’m going to have to disagree with you on that one. I agree with the high regard for Ringo’s drumming, but IMO George had the most real musical talent in the group\*. Listen to his work on “Old Brown Shoe” or even, to go way back, their cover of “Til There Was You”; his solo in the latter had many people speculating that they’d brought in a ringer to record it. > > Interestingly, I note that the list of bands that are getting very high rankings in this thread is a near-verbatim list of my _least_ favorite bands of all time. I don’t say that to dis everyone’s taste (_de gustibus_ and all that); I’m just rather amused at what this says about my criteria for a favorite band. > > - In case it helps give my opinion some credibility, I’ve been playing guitar for about fifteen years. I still totally suck, but I can appreciate musical talent far more than I could before I started. You’re welcome to disagree - and I am more aligned with you in terms of the bulk of the bands on this list. I will stand buy my POV of George - I look at songs where he does a lead - I Feel Fine, Can’t Buy Me Love, I Saw Her Standing There - and they are just weak. Simple phrasing (which I normally love - say, Lindsey Buckingham or Jeff Beck) which is only hit okay - off-time and or assertiveness to just sound okay at best. I listen to the stuff I like of Beatles’ leads - Taxman and While My Guitar Gently Weeps, etc. - and someone else did the leads (Paul and Clapton, respectively). I like some of George’s lead work - Something comes to mind - and I love his chording work - She Loves You, Hard Day’s Night, etc. - but his best work by FAR was as part of the ensemble and as a songwriter. He was far from a virtuoso. And again, the Beatles are my favorite group - I am not slagging just to slag; this is something I have picked apart a LOT as I listen to their stuff… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/55 "2005-07-10T16:03:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Which he despised. > I’m not calling him a bad guitar player, just not a virtuoso. Hey, I wasn’t being serious with the God quote, It was in reply to: **Marley23:**" Yeah, I’m thinking about this again. You might call Clapton a great guitarist, but a virtuoso he’s not. He’s called Slowhand for a reason. " On My guitar gently weeps, most of Cream, Layla, Blind Faith and most of his Blues work he’s is definately a master guitarist. I just can’t give Joe Walsh a 10. I would give him a 9. ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/56 "2005-07-10T17:46:08Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Hey, I wasn’t being serious with the God quote, It was in reply to: > **Marley23:**" Yeah, I’m thinking about this again. You might call Clapton a great guitarist, but a virtuoso he’s not. He’s called Slowhand for a reason. " > > On My guitar gently weeps, most of Cream, Layla, Blind Faith and most of his Blues work he’s is definately a master guitarist. > > I just can’t give Joe Walsh a 10. I would give him a 9. Do you play guitar by chance? IMHO, Clapton is actually one of the most overrated guitar players of all time. He’s very good and was in some great bands at the right time, but he isn’t really inventive or creative. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/57 "2005-07-10T22:37:02Z")
Derek Smalls: 8 David Saint Hubbins: 8 Nigel Tufnel: 11 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Waka\_Waka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e79b87/32.png) [@Waka\_Waka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waka_Waka)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/58 "2018-12-25T21:34:23Z")
Love the question and the entries! First, I have to say that some of the comments already posted are stretching the term “virtuoso” IMO. If you set the highest human achievement at a 10, say Steve Morse on guitar, or Dave Weckl on drums, then you have to say musicians like John, Paul, George and Ringo fall somewhere around a 5. But I’m not here to be contentious… There was a line up of musicians that produced the best live concert I have ever seen The live album was called “Bursting Out.” Ian Anderson: vocals, flute, guitar, concert crash cymbals 🙂 And because of a flute solo only he could produce I’ll give him a 9 Martin Barre: Various guitars, mandolin, marimba =8.5 John Glascock: Bass, Guitar = 8 John Evan: Piano, Organ Synth, Accordian = 8 David Palmer: Pipe organ, synth, and most importantly, arrangements = 8 Barrie Barlow: Drums, glockenspiel = 9 Band = 8.33 If I could give the creativity of the actual music and lyrics a rating it would be a 9 Another band to consider is the ensemble that Sting first put together when he left The Police. (And they weren’t bad neither) Sting: Vocals, guitar, doublebass, synth. (His mastery of instruments is competent, but I give him a number primarily for his vocals) =9.5 Omar Hakim: Drums =9.5 Darryl Jones: Bass = 9.5 Kenny Kirkland: Keys = 9.5 Branford Marsalis: Saxophones = 9.5 and excellent female back up vocals Band Total = 9.5 Of course one could say that they weren’t really a band, but Sting has had virtuoso musicians tour with him for years that are close to being considered band mates ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/59 "2018-12-26T18:16:35Z")
I wonder how Fleetwood Mac would fare in this, we have the earlier Peter Green blues band and then the later McVie/Nicks band. I’d have to put Peter Green as a 10, and Mick Fleetwood as a 9 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605/60 "2018-12-26T19:40:24Z")
As many of the previous posters stated (13 years ago!), the most correct answer has to be **Zappa**. With the exception of the first few MoI albums, Zappa settled for nothing but the best when it came to hiring talent. But even that wasn’t good enough; he would challenge them nonstop in an effort to improve on their (already world-class) skills, right to the edge of what’s humanly possible. Being in his band was like being in school, and alumni (such as Vai and Dunbar) wear it as a badge of honor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rock-groups-feature-the-most-virtuosity-among-their-members/311605.md?page=4)