# What role does “reading law” play in legal education today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275 "2014-03-09T16:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/21 "2014-03-11T14:58:29Z")
**AK84** , do you have a divided profession in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/22 "2014-03-11T15:06:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If you successfully complete the bar course work, you get called at the end of the [del]three years[/del] year. Fixed error caused by autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/23 "2014-03-11T15:35:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > In most jurisdictions being called or admitted is not on its own sufficient to practice (in. England for instance). You need to have completed pupilage/apprenticeship/articles. > > The US is different that anyone who clears the Bar exam is entitled to practice. True. Con artist Frank Abagnale passed the Louisiana Bar exam and was hired by the state Attorney General’s office. > [@](#): > > While he was posing as Pan Am First Officer “Robert Black”, Abagnale forged a Harvard University law transcript, passed the Louisiana Bar exam, and got a job at the Louisiana State Attorney General’s office at the age of nineteen. He told a stewardess he had briefly dated that he was also a Harvard Law School student, and she introduced him to a lawyer friend. Abagnale was told the Bar needed more lawyers and was offered a chance to apply. After making a fake transcript from Harvard, he prepared himself for the compulsory exam. Despite failing twice, he claims to have passed the bar exam legitimately on the third try after eight weeks of study, because “Louisiana, at the time, allowed you to take the Bar over and over as many times as you needed. It was really a matter of eliminating what you got wrong.”[18] > **[Frank Abagnale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale)** > > Frank William Abagnale Jr. (/ˈæbəɡneɪl/; born April 27, 1948) is an American security consultant, author, and convicted felon who committed frauds that mainly targeted individuals and small businesses. He later gained notoriety in the late 1970s by claiming a diverse range of workplace frauds, many of which have since been placed in doubt by one author. In 1980, Abagnale co-wrote his autobiography, Catch Me If You Can, which built a narrative around these claimed frauds. The boo Abagnale claims... ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/24 "2014-03-11T16:04:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **AK84** , do you have a divided profession in Pakistan? Since 1973, no. In practice, the divide between litigators and transactional types has only grown wider since then. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/25 "2014-03-11T16:09:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **AK84** , do you have a divided profession in Pakistan? Since 1973, no. In practice, the divide between litigators and transactional types has only grown wider since then. After qld, you do 6 months of pupilage under an experienced Advocate (7 years call) and after an interview and or exam (provinces/territories differ) you are given a limited license, wbich excludes the High Court of your province. After two further years and a very awful interview you can get a full one. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/26 "2014-03-11T16:11:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > American bar exams cover very little if any courtroom advocacy, so from a Commonwealth perspective, what we call a “bar exam” is more like a solicitoring exam, I should think. Well, the US exam does cover things like Rules of Evidence, criminal procedure and Civil Procedure. ---
**Author:** ![mbetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@mbetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbetter)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/27 "2014-03-11T16:14:14Z")
> [@WilyQuixote](#): > > Strom Thurmond is the most recent person listed - and he was born a while before the outbreak of WWIII. I would hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/28 "2014-03-11T17:26:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > After two further years and a very awful interview you can get a full one. What makes it very awful? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/29 "2014-03-11T17:48:18Z")
Three High Court judges and the Advocate General of your province (or one of his deputies usually) take that interview. Being asked question from every angle simultaneously and on every possible topic under the sun. ---
**Author:** ![LiliesOfTheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@LiliesOfTheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiliesOfTheField)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/30 "2014-03-11T20:18:07Z")
I am in the process of signing up to do this in the state of CA. I haven’t started yet so there’s a lot I can’t speak to. I decided to go this route instead of law school for several reasons. I already have two college degrees, so I know how to be self disciplined. I have physical problems that make sitting in a classroom difficult. Law school is super expensive and there isn’t one where I live and it would be highly impractical to move my family, sell my house, etc. I also don’t wish to become a “high powered” attorney. I wish to be some kind of small town kinda gal and possibly just work for non-profits or some other “think globally act locally” kinda thing. Maybe a little family law on the side. I also met a lawyer who I get along quite well with, whose style fits mine like a glove. It’s common to work for the person who trained you, tho it’s certainly not required, so I could have a job coming out of this. I’ve been working in a non profit profession that’s not specifically legal but has a lot of connection with law for 15 years. There’s a ton I don’t know, but I get the general idea. The Bar pass rate is very low on this path, so I want to be realistic, but I figure in four years, I’ll be four years older. Do I want to be more enriched and have a better resume in four years or do I want to be doing this exact thing four more years? (Sometimes having no grades is a great thing. I know I can “pass” this apprenticeship) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/31 "2014-03-11T20:19:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Three High Court judges and the Advocate General of your province (or one of his deputies usually) take that interview. Being asked question from every angle simultaneously and on every possible topic under the sun. That does sound … challenging. :eek: Is the Advocate General the equivalent of the Attorney General, or head of the Law Society, or ? I just had to write three exams at the end of the bar course. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/32 "2014-03-12T04:55:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That does sound … challenging. :eek: > > Is the Advocate General the equivalent of the Attorney General, or head of the Law Society, or ? > > I just had to write three exams at the end of the bar course. Yeah, it was. Out of 30 people in my group, 8 were accepted. Although, I was glad not to have another written exam. The Advocate general is the senior law officer of the province and by virtue of his office the head of the Bar council. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2014, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/33 "2014-03-12T09:38:11Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yeah, it was. Out of 30 people in my group, 8 were accepted. I take it that you were one of the eight? I well remember my own bar courses and exams. Those I somehow managed to handle; I would not want to have to undergo an interview such as you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/34 "2014-03-14T02:50:41Z")
Strangely enough, when the term “solicitor” is used in the United States, it often has a meaning that seems to be directly opposite of the meaning it carries as part of the barrister-solicitor distinction. What I’m talking about is that the Office of the U.S. Solicitor General is the subdivision of the U.S. Department of Justice that is responsible for representing the federal government in court, specifically, in advocacy before the U.S. Supreme Court. Similarly, many other federal government agencies have their own Office of the Solicitor whose function is to advocate on behalf of the agency (in pleadings and oral argument) before a court. Many state governments also make a similar use of the term “solicitor.” For example, there is an Office of the Solicitor General of Ohio, which represents the government of the State of Ohio before the Ohio Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275/35 "2014-03-14T05:40:47Z")
The title dates to England, where the [Solicitor-General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor_General_for_England_and_Wales) is the deputy to the Attorney General, and normally carries out litigation functions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-role-does-reading-law-play-in-legal-education-today/683275.md?page=1)