# What rules did the secret service agents violate in Columbia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040 "2012-04-17T14:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/21 "2012-04-17T15:07:25Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > “I swear, I had no idea those Columbian prostitutes weren’t American citizens! And then I accidentally in their vaginas!” You might want to go see a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/22 "2012-04-17T15:10:42Z")
My rudimentary understanding of security clearances is in line with what steronz is saying. They don’t watch you like a hawk if you have a security clearance, but having a security clearance comes with certain obligations. Heck, even after losing the clearance you are supposed to follow rules and voluntarily report certain things for several years. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/23 "2012-04-17T15:21:14Z")
Well, they seem to have been bragging in the brothel that they were Secret Service agents, which would seem to be a breach of good security practices. > **[Exclusive: Secret Service Bragged About Protecting Obama While Partying At...](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/exclusive-secret-service-bragged-about-protecting-obama-while-partying-at-colombian-brothel/)** > > They revealed their identities by boasting that they worked for President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/24 "2012-04-17T15:32:18Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > People with jobs like the Secret Service’s protection detail should as a matter of policy not engage in unsavory activities, whether legal or not. It exposes them to scrutiny, makes information less secure, and leads to the possibility of blackmail or extortion. You are aware, are you not that this rationale was once used to exclude gays from federal employment? Should any closeted homosexuals be relieved from Secret Service work? After all, the threat of an involuntary outing could also lead to blackmail. And it occurs to me, the threat of blackmail really only works if your employer is committed to having a conniption if it is revealed that you’re an habitué of Colombian brothels. If your employer doesn’t care, then big whoop, no? And hence, no blackmail. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/25 "2012-04-17T15:41:01Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So if you are traveling on business, you are not allowed to do anything on your free time? It hasn’t been alleged that the agents in question, didn’t do their jobs while they were there. The Secret Service is not a 9 to 5 job. I know plenty of people who travel for their ordinary, non-secure government jobs and none of them thinks the job starts at 9:00 am and ends promptly at 5:00 pm when they are on travel. I don’t believe that the men and women charged with protecting the presidents life think that In any case, there are plenty of people would take a job as a secret sevice agent. People who don’t feel the need to visit hookers during their free time when they are traveling for government work. We should give those people this job and let the current agents go work for the GSA. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/26 "2012-04-17T15:46:08Z")
It seems to me that this Board is the only forum in the world where people will argue about the right of government employees – traveling on government business and in posession of the travel plans of the President of the United States – to bring Colombian hookers to their hotel rooms.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/27 "2012-04-17T15:46:11Z")
What’s Rule Numero Uno for the Secret Service? **"Keep the Boss alive."** But what’s Rule Numero Dos, you might ask? **"Don’t embarrass the Boss."** Laws or not, they broke Rule Numero Dos and _everyone_ who understands the way senior executives think knows that they did so. It may be that they did something illegal or nothing illegal, their careers are still toast for the indiscretion alone. ---
**Author:** ![Jaymosch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaymosch/32/2820_2.png) [@Jaymosch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaymosch)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/28 "2012-04-17T15:58:58Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So if you are traveling on business, you are not allowed to do anything on your free time? It hasn’t been alleged that the agents in question, didn’t do their jobs while they were there. Who said that? You seem to be missing the point that when someone is travelling on business they should be mindful of their activities and associations during any free time. Particularly so if they are part of a visiting government delegation. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/29 "2012-04-17T16:04:57Z")
This was Special Agent Charles Sheen’s first week on the job, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/30 "2012-04-17T16:11:27Z")
My company has made it quite clear to me that they consider all of my behavior to reflect upon them, and that I should keep that in mind while making any decision, ever. The last three companies I worked for had essentially the same policy. Any reflection upon my judgement or character could and would be held against me. Given the state of the economy, and the fact that I work in a decidedly pro-corporation State, I’m assuming that even a legal Nevada brothel (prostitution is illegal in Vegas, guys!) could get me fired. I don’t see how anyone could argue that their actions showed good judgement or character. Bad judgement is certainly a career-limiting defect in the Secret Service. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/31 "2012-04-17T16:11:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > People with jobs like the Secret Service’s protection detail should as a matter of policy not engage in unsavory activities, whether legal or not. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > We don’t want people with classified information to fraternize with people’s whose ethical standards may be just a little lower. > [@Sailboat](#): > > **“Don’t embarrass the Boss.”** > [@Jaymosch](#): > > when someone is travelling on business they should be mindful of their activities and associations during any free time. Anyone know if these items are in the specific policies of the secret service agency? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/32 "2012-04-17T16:15:05Z")
As an aside, this discussion reminds me a great deal of the first rule of SDMB: Don’t be a jerk. Eventually, no matter how you look at it, these agents were being jerks professionally. Such jobs require a level of judgement that can’t be simply codified in a set of rules. There is a point where trusted professionals are supposed to be smart enough to avoid being jerks. If they don’t, or don’t care, they are not up to the job. As simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/33 "2012-04-17T16:15:15Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > My company has made it quite clear to me that they consider all of my behavior to reflect upon them, and that I should keep that in mind while making any decision, ever. The last three companies I worked for had essentially the same policy. Any reflection upon my judgement or character could and would be held against me. Given the state of the economy, and the fact that I work in a decidedly pro-corporation State, I’m assuming that even a legal Nevada brothel (prostitution is illegal in Vegas, guys!) could get me fired. > > I don’t see how anyone could argue that their actions showed good judgement or character. Bad judgement is certainly a career-limiting defect in the Secret Service. Manorialism: If you can’t beat 'em, join 'em, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/34 "2012-04-17T16:20:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Anyone know if these items are in the specific policies of the secret service agency? Why don’t you call your friend and then report back to us? ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/35 "2012-04-17T16:20:24Z")
> [@grude](#): > > So someone with a security clearance whose spouse or whole family are foreign nationals does what exactly? > > Off topic butit occured to me a while back that were he not CIC Obama would likely have been turned down for a security clearance, and then people wonder why the US government is stodgy and groupthinky.:smack: Why do you believe President Obama would have been turned down for a security clearance? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/36 "2012-04-17T16:46:54Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Manorialism: If you can’t beat 'em, join 'em, I guess. I am warranted to spend millions of dollars for this company,a nd do so on a regular basis. Money which originated with taxpayers, and is slated for the public good. I see no problem with the requirement that I demonstrate good judgement at all times. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/37 "2012-04-17T16:48:02Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > Why do you believe President Obama would have been turned down for a security clearance? I assume he’s referring to the fact that his Father is not an American citizen. But really Clinton’s history of affairs and W’s close Saudi friendships would be far more problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/38 "2012-04-17T16:51:08Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I am warranted to spend millions of dollars for this company,a nd do so on a regular basis. Money which originated with taxpayers, and is slated for the public good. I see no problem with the requirement that I demonstrate good judgement at all times. Is there any area of your outside-of-work, private life that you would not be so blithe about your employer interfering in? “ **TruCelt** , we have some real concerns about that guy you’re dating and we’d like you to dump him.” “ **TruCelt** , did I happen to oversee you talking to socialist on Saturday afternoon?” “ **TruCelt** , one of your coworkers heard you went to a sex toy sales party your friend was hosting. Nice, upstanding women don’t do that. Surely you won’t make that mistake again.” No skin off your ass if your employer had the audacity to raise these things to you? Really? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/39 "2012-04-17T17:04:21Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Is there any area of your outside-of-work, private life that you would not be so blithe about your employer interfering in? > > “ **TruCelt** , we have some real concerns about that guy you’re dating and we’d like you to dump him.” > > “ **TruCelt** , did I happen to oversee you talking to socialist on Saturday afternoon?” > > “ **TruCelt** , one of your coworkers heard you went to a sex toy sales party your friend was hosting. Nice, upstanding women don’t do that. Surely you won’t make that mistake again.” > > No skin off your ass if your employer had the audacity to raise these things to you? Really? Re the Guy: I’d want more details, but if they have real concerns I’d like to hear about them. Talking to a Socialist? I have the right to talk to anybody, and there is nothing wrong with Socialism. If I were seen at a Communist meeting, I woudl expect to be questioned and possibly fired, yes. I would never go to a party of the type, and would be horribly embarassed if such a thing occurred, but no, I wouldn’t expect to be fired for it unless the items in question were improperly imported or being sold on the grey market. I’m not arguing that this is OK for any company/job. I wouldn’t expect our receptionist to be held to the same standards. But yes, I think they have the right to expect more from me. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/40 "2012-04-17T17:08:54Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > And it occurs to me, the threat of blackmail really only works if your employer is committed to having a conniption if it is revealed that you’re an habitué of Colombian brothels. If your employer doesn’t care, then big whoop, no? And hence, no blackmail. Not true. Your wife can care. Or your friends, family, etc. “Give us state secrets or we’ll tell your wife you’re sleeping with prostitutes.” Note that this might extend to being gay, as long as your sexual orientation is something you’re keeping secret and that you might be able to be blackmailed over. In the case of a single guy who frequently visits prostitutes and is very public about it, there’s still the issue that they’re foreign nationals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040.md?page=3)