# What rules did the secret service agents violate in Columbia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040 "2012-04-17T14:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/41 "2012-04-17T17:11:18Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Anyone know if these items are in the specific policies of the secret service agency? Are you asking if it’s a _written_ policy? That’s a different question. Well, let’s start with [their web page](http://www.secretservice.gov/join/who.shtml): > [@](#): > > **Core Values** > > Each point of the Secret Service star represents one of the agency’s five core values: justice, duty, courage, honesty and loyalty. These values, and the Secret Service adage “Worthy of Trust and Confidence,” resonate with each man and woman who has sworn the oath to uphold them. To reinforce these values, Secret Service leaders and employees promote and measure personal accountability and program performance across the agency. By holding each person to the highest standards of personal and professional integrity, the Secret Service ensures the preservation of its core values, the fulfillment of its vision and the success of its mission. > > **Worthy of Trust and Confidence** > > The United States Secret Service is a federal law enforcement agency with headquarters in Washington, D.C., and more than 150 offices throughout the United States and abroad. Established in 1865 solely to suppress the counterfeiting of U.S. currency, today the Secret Service is mandated by Congress to carry out two significant objectives: protection and investigations. > > With the Secret Service you are not just choosing a job, you are choosing a career driven by integrity, honor, dedication and trust. The Secret Service is bound by a strong sense of commitment, both to each other and our mission. With career choices like no other, you can take pride in working for the Secret Service. Here you will find yourself as part of a highly-trained team driven by integrity, honor and dedication – a team worthy of trust and confidence. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/42 "2012-04-17T17:14:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > People with jobs like the Secret Service’s protection detail should as a matter of policy not engage in unsavory activities, whether legal or not. [Sterling Archer]Then why be one?[/Sterling Archer] ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/43 "2012-04-17T17:35:00Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It’s fine as long as you disclose everything. If you’re married to a foreign national, their background will be closely scrutinized, but if they don’t find anything, you’ll still likely get your clearance. I mean, getting stationed overseas and coming back married is a time-honored tradition. The import thing is that you don’t accidentally forget that you’ve been dating an Iranian national for the last 3 years. They frown on that. This and your previous post are right on the mark. I can vouch for the rules about reporting foreign contacts. More than one diplomat has been brought down by sex scandal. Get him in bed, in comes the accomplice with a camera, and he’s in the position of disclosing what he’s done and taking the marital consequences, or forking over information to keep them at bay. Felix Bloch was a prime example of this in Vienna. He now drives a bus somewhere, but not after giving away classified information to the Soviets after being caught with a Soviet-planted prostitute. Then there was that whole scandal with the Marine in Moscow (also tied to Mr. Bloch). These SS guys and the previous guys who have done this have taken serious risks, exposing themselves to compromise and blackmail. Many tourist rooms in the third world have electronic eavesdropping equipment installed. Those rooms are routinely given to visitors from foreign governments to monitor their activities. The only mystery is how this sort of behavior has not gone public way before this. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/44 "2012-04-17T17:36:05Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So if you are traveling on business, you are not allowed to do anything on your free time? It hasn’t been alleged that the agents in question, didn’t do their jobs while they were there. As others have mentioned, traveling on a Secret Service security detail is hardly a 9-to-5 job. And as a matter of fact, it’s VERY common for companies to have a paragraph in their employees contract that says something to the effect of “While traveling on company business, you’re representing us. Doing something that will make us look like assholes will get you fired.” When the Secret Service is in a foreign country, part of their official role is to represent the United States. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/45 "2012-04-17T17:38:21Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > And it occurs to me, the threat of blackmail really only works if your employer is committed to having a conniption if it is revealed that you’re an habitué of Colombian brothels. If your employer doesn’t care, then big whoop, no? And hence, no blackmail. Even if your employer _encourages_ you to hire prostitutes, “Give me X/do X for me or I’ll tell your WIFE about those Colombian hookers” will do _just fine_ for blackmail. So will “children,” “your ex-wife’s lawyer,” “girlfriend,” etc. As it turns out, threatening to tear apart one’s family is an excellent way to blackmail someone. And it doesn’t matter if the agents in question were single at the time. Odds are they’ll be married eventually, and I doubt discussing your hooker and blow night in Colombia is really a conversation most men want to have with their new brides. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/46 "2012-04-17T17:45:44Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The problem in this situation, is that it was an embarrasment to the agency. There’s nothing unethical about being single and picking up someone in a bar and having consensual sex with them in your hotel room, and some posters here are alluding that would be grounds for dismissal as well. Don’t take my word for it. [This article by bloomberg](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/04/16/bloomberg_articlesM2L9C40UQVI901-M2LGV.DTL#ixzz1sJx1XQbq) says an investigation is underway “to determine whether any classified information was lost or compromised as well as the identities of the women involved and whether they may have been recruited by a foreign intelligence service or a group with hostile intentions toward Obama.” The article also has quotes from Senator Collins, the ranking Republican on the Homeland Security committee (and others in Congress) espressing concern about the security issues. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/47 "2012-04-17T17:51:46Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > Even if your employer _encourages_ you to hire prostitutes, “Give me X/do X for me or I’ll tell your WIFE about those Colombian hookers” will do _just fine_ for blackmail. So will “children,” “your ex-wife’s lawyer,” “girlfriend,” etc. As it turns out, threatening to tear apart one’s family is an excellent way to blackmail someone. So will almost anything. “Give me state secrets, or I will tell your mother about your father’s affair.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll tell the press that you’re a nudist.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal how you downloaded _Horny Grandmas IV_.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal that your fancy house you’re so proud of is of shoddy construction and underwater on two mortgages.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal you’re impotent.” At a certain point, we have to acknowledge that we all lead private lives that contain components we don’t want publicized. And that the best innoculation against this sort of blackmail is society’s kindness to overlook these none-of-our-business revelations when they are made. _See generally_ [Jack McGeorge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McGeorge). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/48 "2012-04-17T17:55:58Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > You are aware, are you not that this rationale was once used to exclude gays from federal employment? Should any closeted homosexuals be relieved from Secret Service work? After all, the threat of an involuntary outing could also lead to blackmail. > > And it occurs to me, the threat of blackmail really only works if your employer is committed to having a conniption if it is revealed that you’re an habitué of Colombian brothels. If your employer doesn’t care, then big whoop, no? And hence, no blackmail. The difference between a private employer and these guys is that Secret Service members have security clearances and are thus vulnerable to the information they have being compromised through blackmail. I have to argue your logic above: if someone is a “closeted homosexual”, how would the agency know to relieve him of his position? Frequenting a brothel is a secondary issue. The ‘honey traps’ that frequent bars are even worse than hookers, as they may be professional agents of the host country. It’s knowingly placing yourself in a compromising situation and not reporting the contact that is the issue. Losing one’s clearance is a seriously big deal. It means you will likely never be able to hold another government job (or private sector job that deals with national security) that requires anything higher than a ‘confidential’ rating (if that). I worked for twelve years with a ‘secret’ clearance, and guarded it vigorously. After that, I worked for a two DOD contractors which also required government background checks. If I had lost my clearance because I was to stupid to safeguard it, it would have seriously hampered my earning ability. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/49 "2012-04-17T18:29:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The country is called _Colombia_. Columbia is a college in New York, a river and county in Washington, and the name of the district where the U.S. capital is located. And the capital of South Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/50 "2012-04-17T18:30:46Z")
Some of you seem to be arguing “it _shouldn’t_ be that way.” Well, that’s sort of a different argument from whether it _is_ that way or not. You know, there _shouldn’t_ be consequences if you fart. But if you fart at a formal dinner to which the President invited you, _while he’s speaking_, you’re not going to be invited back. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/51 "2012-04-17T18:47:45Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > And it occurs to me, the threat of blackmail really only works if your employer is committed to having a conniption if it is revealed that you’re an habitué of Colombian brothels. If your employer doesn’t care, then big whoop, no? And hence, no blackmail. Doesn’t what has happened qualify as a conniption? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/52 "2012-04-17T18:55:24Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Doesn’t what has happened qualify as a conniption? Yes, it does. And I dare say not one predicated on the diminished stature of American diplomacy but seeing a tawdry story that will sell newspapers and furnish the opportunity to score political points. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/53 "2012-04-17T19:07:28Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So will almost anything. “Give me state secrets, or I will tell your mother about your father’s affair.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll tell the press that you’re a nudist.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal how you downloaded _Horny Grandmas IV_.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal that your fancy house you’re so proud of is of shoddy construction and underwater on two mortgages.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal you’re impotent.” > > At a certain point, we have to acknowledge that we all lead private lives that contain components we don’t want publicized. And that the best innoculation against this sort of blackmail is society’s kindness to overlook these none-of-our-business revelations when they are made. _See generally_ [Jack McGeorge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McGeorge). Oh for Christs sake.:rolleyes: “Leading a private life” has nothing to do with having a Colombian hooker and blow party while on duty as a US Secret Service Agent. Do you think that behavior is befitting a law enforcement office who is representing the highest office of the most powerful country on Earth? ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/54 "2012-04-17T19:28:00Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So will almost anything. “Give me state secrets, or I will tell your mother about your father’s affair.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll tell the press that you’re a nudist.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal how you downloaded _Horny Grandmas IV_.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal that your fancy house you’re so proud of is of shoddy construction and underwater on two mortgages.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal you’re impotent.” > > At a certain point, we have to acknowledge that we all lead private lives that contain components we don’t want publicized. And that the best innoculation against this sort of blackmail is society’s kindness to overlook these none-of-our-business revelations when they are made. _See generally_ [Jack McGeorge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McGeorge). “Yeah honey, you should just overlook this none-of-your-business revelation that I cheated on you with a Colombian prostitute.” :rolleyes: It doesn’t matter what _society_ thinks. If someone was blackmailing me in this way, I’d be much more worried about losing my wife, my kids, my house, half of everything I own, many of my friends, etc. than about someone reading about it in the paper. A blackmailer in this case wouldn’t threaten to go to the newspaper, they’d threaten to go to the person’s spouse. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/55 "2012-04-17T19:38:41Z")
> [@wheresmymind](#): > > “Yeah honey, you should just overlook this none-of-your-business revelation that I cheated on you with a Colombian prostitute.” :rolleyes: > > It doesn’t matter what _society_ thinks. If someone was blackmailing me in this way, I’d be much more worried about losing my wife, my kids, my house, half of everything I own, many of my friends, etc. than about someone reading about it in the paper. > > A blackmailer in this case wouldn’t threaten to go to the newspaper, they’d threaten to go to the person’s spouse. This is exactly how it works. An employer may overlook your indiscretion; a spouse in unlikely to. So the extortionist says, ‘tell you what, give me a copy of the proposed itinerary and we’ll call it all good.’ Agent thinks, ‘ah, easy way out’ and does so. Now they have him by the balls because he’s given up classified information, which can mean prison time. Now the demands get increasingly higher and the stakes go up. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/56 "2012-04-17T19:38:48Z")
> [@grude](#): > > So someone with a security clearance whose spouse or whole family are foreign nationals does what exactly? > > Off topic butit occured to me a while back that were he not CIC Obama would likely have been turned down for a security clearance, and then people wonder why the US government is stodgy and groupthinky.:smack: Groupthinky? I gotta use that from now on! 🙂 Also, I think these guys need some off-time recreation. They have a very stressful job. Just not where security is kept. Blackmail? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/57 "2012-04-17T19:50:51Z")
I’m not even a secret service agent, but every year I have to take a basic refresher web course on ethics, the explicitly stated underlying principal of which is don’t do anything that will embarrass the government. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/58 "2012-04-17T20:36:10Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So will almost anything. “Give me state secrets, or I will tell your mother about your father’s affair.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll tell the press that you’re a nudist.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal how you downloaded _Horny Grandmas IV_.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal that your fancy house you’re so proud of is of shoddy construction and underwater on two mortgages.” “Give me state secrets, or I’ll reveal you’re impotent.” > > At a certain point, we have to acknowledge that we all lead private lives that contain components we don’t want publicized. And that the best innoculation against this sort of blackmail is society’s kindness to overlook these none-of-our-business revelations when they are made. _See generally_ [Jack McGeorge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McGeorge). I don’t believe that you think downloading pornography is of equivalent blackmail value to cheating on your spouse with a prostitute. If you don’t believe that, then what’s your point here? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/59 "2012-04-17T20:53:20Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > Groupthinky? I gotta use that from now on! 🙂 It’s a real phenomenon; see [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/60 "2012-04-17T21:20:41Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t believe that you think downloading pornography is of equivalent blackmail value to cheating on your spouse with a prostitute. If you don’t believe that, then what’s your point here? Could be to someone else though and with blackmail that’s all that matters. Say, conversely, the agents at issue were swingers and their wives don’t care. Does that mean I win? Do you have a stronger argument other than “They’re just different!”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040.md?page=4)