# What rules did the secret service agents violate in Columbia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040 "2012-04-17T14:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/81 "2012-04-18T15:41:34Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > Who would commit treason to avoid being caught cheating? I suspect many people would. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/82 "2012-04-18T18:17:04Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > Who would commit treason to avoid being caught cheating? Did you not read the thread? See post #43 for my reference to Felix Bloch, one of the more notorious examples of trading secrets for illicit sex. Here, I’ll [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Bloch_(diplomatic_officer)) to an article for you. I was involved in the electronic search of the entire executive suite at the Vienna embassy after this traitor was identified. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/83 "2012-04-18T18:37:30Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Did you not read the thread? See post #43 for my reference to Felix Bloch, one of the more notorious examples of trading secrets for illicit sex. Here, I’ll [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Bloch_(diplomatic_officer)) to an article for you. I was involved in the electronic search of the entire executive suite at the Vienna embassy after this traitor was identified. Yeah, the threat isn’t so much of, “If you don’t do what we say your wife will find out!” It’s more like, “You have a choice: you have fooled around with these women and lied about it. If someone finds out, your wife will leave you and you will get fired, and probably go to jail. You will never get a decent job again and you will be financially ruined. No more nice house in the suburbs and a good office job, you will be lucky to live in a studio apartment alone and find a job making $12 a hour because nobody wants to hire a disgraced liar. Or, we can continue to cooperate. You can continue to fool around with your mistress, we’ll pay you a nice amount of money every now and then, so you can finally take your wife and kids on that Hawaiian vacation you’ve always wanted… And nobody will ever find out. So which do you choose, a life in tatters, or continue to work with us and everything will be the way it was, only better?” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/84 "2012-04-18T18:45:01Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Win what? How would an agent be blackmailed in your situation? “I’ll tell your wife you’re a swinger!” “Ok, but wait until she gets back from her orgy…” Doesn’t really work. It’s not just about “blackmail”. There are other psychological “levers” one can pull in order to get someone to do something. Someone who is addicted to drugs or alchohol or sex will often do illegal or immoral things to feed their addiction. They can also demonstrate poor judgement while under the influence. People act in desperation due to debt or other financial circumstances. A person can be manipulated with sex. We’ve all seen the classic “honey pot” scenario in the movies where a female operative seduces an unknowing asset. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/85 "2012-04-20T05:26:50Z")
The US has laws against ‘sex tourism’ (basically, visiting a foreign country to engage in sex that would be illegal here). They seem to be mostly applied in cases involving underage sex partners, though. But the actual law is much more general: > [@](#): > > A United States citizen or an alien admitted for permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign commerce, for the purpose of engaging in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. Could this Federal law (18 U.S.C. § 2423) apply to this case? I suppose the agents could claim that they didn’t travel to Colombia _for this purpose_, but were traveling to there for the purpose of preparing for the Presidential trip; the illicit sex was just incidental to their trip. Not sure how a jury would take that argument. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/86 "2012-04-20T16:56:02Z")
What does “travels in foreign commerce” mean? I’m unfamiliar with that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/87 "2012-04-20T17:06:33Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:86, topic:619040”] What does “travels in foreign commerce” mean? I’m unfamiliar with that phrase. [/QUOTE] It is the jurisdictional hook that constitutionalizes the exercise of the federal police power. It basically means that the law is being promulgated pursuant to the Commerce Clause, and the activity at issue must be one that has involved interstate or foreign commerce or made use of the channels or instrumentalities of the same or having a substantial relation to those things. (Taking a common carrier to a foreign destination plainly involves at least the channels or instrumentalities of foreign commerce, so too would driving on an interstate highway to Canada or Mexico.) On the other hand, subsection (f) defines “illicit sexual conduct” as: > [@](#): > > (f) Definition. > > As used in this section, the term “illicit sexual conduct” means > (1) a sexual act (as defined in section 2246) \*\*\*with a person under 18 years of age \*\*\*that would be in violation of chapter 109A if the sexual act occurred in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States; or > > (2) any commercial sex act (as defined in section 1591) _ **with a person under 18 years of age.** _ (Emphasis added.) This is why the law has been “mostly applied in cases involving underage sex partners.” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/88 "2012-04-20T18:04:38Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > (Taking a common carrier to a foreign destination plainly involves at least the channels or instrumentalities of foreign commerce, so too would driving on an interstate highway to Canada or Mexico.) So, for the overwhelming majority of Americans, traveling outside of North America will always be “traveling in foreign commerce” (exceptions being travelers who have their own boat or plane capable of intercontinental travel)? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/89 "2012-04-20T18:21:57Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:88, topic:619040”] So, for the overwhelming majority of Americans, traveling outside of North America will always be “traveling in foreign commerce” (exceptions being travelers who have their own boat or plane capable of intercontinental travel)? [/QUOTE] Yes. And this makes sense, I think. The Constitution allows the federal government to regulate the usage of international/interstate seaports and airport and the interstate highway system. This extends to the commercial and private entities that make use of those ports and highways. Congress can regulate that these channels and instrumentalities should not be clogged up by unsavory sex tourists. Border control is also an inherent power of the federal government and the government can regulate re-entry into the United States by those who have left to go abroad and engage in activities injurious to the public health (namely STDs) and morals (namely the pursuit of sexual activities with minors). This law is not a border control regulation per se, but the regulation does serve as a disincentive to sojourn abroad to engage in activities that ultimately have potentially deleterious effects within the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040/90 "2012-04-20T22:45:32Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > This is why the law has been “mostly applied in cases involving underage sex partners.” So were the prostitutes in this case younger than 18? (That is not uncommon in prostitutes here in the US; even more common in 3rd-world countries.) Note that this law applies the US age of 18 to foreign countries, despite whatever age they have in their own laws. (And even though several US states have a lower age.) And it mentions nothing about consent. Presumably the prostitutes consented to do this – or would have, if they had been paid the agreed price. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-rules-did-the-secret-service-agents-violate-in-columbia/619040.md?page=4)