# What’s the deal with state flags? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 30, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252 "2021-05-30T23:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/41 "2021-05-31T14:29:53Z")
I’m glad I have the opportunity to be the first in this thread to point out the flag of Hawaii, which still incorporates the Union Jack. The strange thing about it is that Hawaii (even though it maintained, during its time as an independent kingdom, relations with Britain) was never ruled by the British. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/42 "2021-05-31T14:36:50Z")
See, I think I respectfully disagree with the idea that “Those are The Rules for flags, and at best we might concede that your flag is still OK even though it broke The Rules”. “The Rules” aren’t official; they were just made up by armchair vexillologists, and while I think they’re pretty good _guidelines_ I wouldn’t go so far as to say _“Objectively” this flag violates The Rules, and is therefore in some sense “bad”._ Bhutan obviously falls under the “Yeah, but dragons are totally sweet!” exception to The Rules: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Flag_of_Bhutan.svg/320px-Flag_of_Bhutan.svg.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Flag_of_Bhutan.svg/320px-Flag_of_Bhutan.svg.png) A totally different kind of dragon from a different tradition, but still cool. But what about Lebanon? [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Lebanon.svg/320px-Flag_of_Lebanon.svg.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Flag_of_Lebanon.svg/320px-Flag_of_Lebanon.svg.png) I would say that’s also a fine flag, even if most of us would struggle to draw it. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/43 "2021-05-31T14:45:15Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The two sides of Oregon’s flag differ. One has the state name, seal and year of establishment, the other: That double-sidedness is what puts Oregon over the top. Sure, we have a state seal on blue. And the name of the state in big letters. All things that vexillologists deprecate. But none of the others have a double-sided flag. It’s not on that list of flag rules, but v-ologists really deprecate that. I’m proud that we have the worst state flag in the country. (Not!) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/44 "2021-05-31T14:59:31Z")
I’m probably one of the few people posting in this thread who actually flies his state flag (under the U.S. flag on a pole outside the front of the house. We inherited the Stars and Stripes when we moved in and had the Kentucky flag in storage for years before we moved back to the state, so what the hell). I’m not crazy about the design of the Kentucky flag, which appears to show Daniel Boone shaking hands with a used car salesman. [https://einfon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Kentucky.jpg](https://einfon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Kentucky.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/45 "2021-05-31T15:19:03Z")
Alaska has a great flag, and it has a bear on it too. The story I remember (too lazy to look it up) is that there was a contest for school children to submit the best design Okay, I just looked it up. I thought it was int he 50s. > Before 1927, Alaska did not have a flag. At the time, Alaska was still a territory, meaning that the federal government controlled Alaska and its citizens lacked voting representation in Congress. Since Alaska was purchased from Russia in 1867, Alaskans had flown only the U.S. flag. But in 1926, Territorial Governor George Parks thought having a flag would help Alaska become a state. He persuaded the Alaska American Legion to hold a contest open to all Alaskan children grades 7 – 12 to design Alaska’s new flag. By January of 1927, the contest rules were circulated to schools throughout the territory. One of the students participating in the contest was thirteen year-old Benny Benson. > **[Benny Benson: An Alaska Kid Who Made History - Alaska Historical Society](https://alaskahistoricalsociety.org/discover-alaska/kids-page/benny-benson-an-alaska-kid-who-made-history/)** > > Before 1927, Alaska did not have a flag. At the time, Alaska was still a territory, meaning that the federal government controlled Alaska and its citizens lacked voting representation in Congress. Since Alaska was purchased from Russia in 1867,... ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/46 "2021-05-31T15:35:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > 1. Most Americans wouldn’t recognize their own state flag. They are not very prominent in civic life. Wisconsins is. I see it flown all over beneath the Stars & Stripes. Schools, city/county/state buildings, court houses, police stations, corporate buildings, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/47 "2021-05-31T15:37:55Z")
Isn’t that the case in _every_ state? That the state flag flies at every state, county and municipal building? ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/48 "2021-05-31T16:21:36Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > > [@Hatchie](#): > > > > Vexillologists need to stop whining. > > I suppose that was meant ironically? Not really. I understand the utility of having your national flag design be simple and easy to read at a distance in a “friend or foe” encounter. But states, districts, provinces? Let your freak flag fly! I guess if your state flag is an ugly mess, you won’t sell as many of them, so that might be a reason to consider a redesign. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/49 "2021-05-31T16:23:28Z")
I would consider ease of drawing to be a less important rule than the others, but while those rules aren’t official or set in stone, they exist for a reason, and are overall good rules. Lebanon’s not too bad, though, because even a child can draw a recognizable green pine tree. It might not have precisely the same details as the official one, but it’d be close enough (especially since even the official one is somewhat abstracted). And yeah, Alaska’s is a good one all around: It’s simple both in concept and in detail, it doesn’t have any words or anything, there’s no controversy or offense about it, and it’s sufficiently distinctive of its state that even if you didn’t know what state flag it was, you could probably guess it on the first try. > [@dtilque](#): > > That double-sidedness is what puts Oregon over the top. Sure, we have a state seal on blue. And the name of the state in big letters. All things that vexillologists deprecate. But none of the others have a double-sided flag. It’s not on that list of flag rules, but v-ologists really deprecate that. I’m proud that we have the worst state flag in the country. (Not!) Non-matching sides, I think, falls under the Air Bud rule: It’s so uncommon that nobody would bother to make a “rule” against it, and so it’s allowed, and so it gets to be unique in its own way, sort of like Ohio. It would, however, make it a pain to actually make the flag, since most methods for manufacturing a flag would naturally put the same design on both sides, and you’d have to make sure the other side won’t show through when backlit. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/50 "2021-05-31T16:32:46Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > About half of all state flags are a blue field with a state emblem on it. I’ve read that it’s the fault of the Civil War. A state would raise a regiment (like the famous Maine 20th infantry regiment) the the people in charge would say, “Great! Now let’s march them off to war behind our state flag!” “Um, we don’t _have_ a state flag.” At the time US Army regimental flags were the color denoting whichever branch it was in (blue for infantry) with the eagle from the [Great Seal](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/1024px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png). The regimental coat of arms would be substituted for the stripes on the shield and the regimental motto would take the place of _E Pluribus Unum_ in the ribbon the eagle had in its mouth. Some states simply substituted their state seal for the eagle and even specified the flag proportions and shade of blue match the army’s specs then called it done. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/51 "2021-05-31T16:35:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Maryland is the flag of Lord Baltimore. Do you remember Lord Baltimore and Joe Lefors tracking Butch and Sundance over solid rock? Neat-o! > [@Hatchie](#): > > The Maryland flag is a tribute to Cecil. Serious! Indeed; Cecil Calvert – he has his own whiskey, his own county and if you’re not pronouncing it “Culvert,” you’re not a true Marylander. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/52 "2021-05-31T17:12:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the gripping talon, of course, dragons are badass, and everything’s better with a dragon on it. So that sort of makes up for it. You win the prize for best turn of phrase in the thread. Bravo Good Sir! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/53 "2021-05-31T17:35:11Z")
See, California’s flag fails this silly test and CA has a _great_ flag. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/54 "2021-05-31T17:43:12Z")
I spent my first 25 years in PA and I haven’t the faintest idea what its flag is like. I suppose it flies over the capitol but certainly not at schools or municipal buildings. Quebec is different since it thinks of itself as a sovereign country and its flag is seen everywhere. In Switzerland, cantonal flags are on every licence plate and, in the two cantons I have lived in, are seen everywhere. When our landlord celebrated a landmark wedding anniversary (maybe his 20th), the invitations were embossed with a design that was partly his home cantonal flag and partly his wife’s. Most of the designs were simple (Zurich’s consisted of a blue half and a white half, divided diagonally, while Fribourg’s was a black half and a white half, divided horizontally), but some were complicated including one with a cow with a ring in her nose (Uri, IIRC). Bern had a bear, a pun on its name (which was actually derived from the German name for Verona). ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/55 "2021-05-31T18:40:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@SCAdian](#): > > > > Mississippi had the Southern Cross, not the Stars and Bars. > > Nope. Stars and Bars: Three stripes, red-white-red. Seven white stars in a circle on a blue canton. Mississippi: Three stripes, blue-white-red. Southern Cross as a canton. Stars and Bars are definitely not part of the old Mississippi flag. > [@Schnitte](#): > > Is “Southern Cross” an established term for this design? Wiki: “Though never having historically represented the Confederate States of America as a country, nor having been officially recognized as one of its national flags, the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and its variants are now flag types commonly referred to as _the Confederate Flag_ . This design has become a recognized symbol of racism and white supremacy to some, especially in the Southern United States. It is also known as the _rebel flag_ , _Dixie flag_ , and _Southern cross_ . It is sometimes incorrectly referred to as _the Stars and Bars_ , the name of the first national Confederate flag” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/56 "2021-05-31T19:19:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Lebanon’s not too bad, though, because even a child can draw a recognizable green pine tree. I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be a cedar tree, a particular sort of conifer, but if things aren’t too formal I’d guess generic “pine tree” would work fine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/57 "2021-05-31T19:32:29Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Bern had a bear, a pun on its name (which was actually derived from the German name for Verona). You know the difference between a herald and a comic? Comics can tell puns, but heralds cant. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/58 "2021-05-31T19:53:40Z")
I recognize about a dozen or so. Mostly west coast, and states where my team plays football. 😉 > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m probably one of the few people posting in this thread who actually flies his state flag I fly mine quite frequently. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/59 "2021-05-31T19:59:52Z")
I just quizzed myself on the flags of the various state. I got 34 of them correct. Mainly because: a. The state is an Important One b. The state is in the Southwest and therefore familiar to me c. The name of the state is on the flag. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/60 "2021-05-31T20:24:43Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Could they draw their own state flag? I grew up in Illinois. I vaguely recall studying it a bit in school. There’s a song: “1818 saw your founding Illinois, Illinois/And your progress is unbounding Illinois, Illinois” or something like that. We had a gung ho history teacher in middle school. We didn’t have a pledge to it, though some states do. > **[State Pledges: Do You Know Yours?](https://www.wideopencountry.com/state-pledges-know/)** > > Seventeen states across the nation have official state flag pledges. Find out if your state has one.  > [@Cervaise](#): > > Most of them are ridiculous and amateurish. A couple of them are kinda cool. > > Chicago: I didn’t realize how much information that flag was supposed to represent. [Wikipedia explanation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#/media/File:History_and_Meaning_of_The_Chicago_Flag.png) > In a review by the [North American Vexillological Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Vexillological_Association) of 150 American city flags, the Chicago city flag was ranked second best with a rating of 9.03 out of 10, behind only the [flag of Washington, D.C.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_District_of_Columbia)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Chicago#cite_note-2) By the way Ivory Coast and Ireland have similar flags… > **[Irish flag vs Ivory Coast flag: The difference | IrishCentral.com](https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/irish-flag-ivory-coast-flag-confused)** > > We explain the difference between the Ivory Cost flag and the Ireland flag and why they look so similar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252.md?page=4)