# What’s the deal with state flags? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 30, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252 "2021-05-30T23:54:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/101 "2021-06-01T23:41:57Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’ve always been partial to our [Ohio state flag](https://www.zoro.com/nylglo-ohio-state-flag-3x5-ft-144260/i/G7425214/) [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Ohio.svg/255px-Flag_of_Ohio.svg.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_Ohio.svg/255px-Flag_of_Ohio.svg.png) I recall an incident where the Ohio state flag fed into an episode of Obama Derangement Syndrome: > **[Opinion: Talk-show host calls Ohio flag “Obama flag”](https://www.thelantern.com/2008/10/opinion-talk-show-host-calls-ohio-flag-obama-flag/)** > > It is absolutely petrifying that some of the most obtuse individuals are allowed to have access to thousands, if not millions, of ready, willing and tuned-in ears waiting to be corrupted with misinformation. A friend recently sent me a link to a Web... > A friend recently sent me a link to a Web site about Bob Grant, a New York City talk show radio host known for his controversial statements. The Web site, [www.mediamatters.org](http://www.mediamatters.org), hosts a portion of Grant’s talk show in which he expressed tremendous apprehension that Barack Obama could become president of this country. His reasoning? Obama has taken over the American flag and put an “O” on it to make it his own. > The flag in question was in the background during an Obama appearance in Toledo. Bob Grant, while on air, asked his listening audience to help him understand this “strange-looking” flag. A caller informed him that she was under the impression that this was the United States’ new flag, and because Obama claimed everything was going to change because of him, the flag would be changing as well. > The circle in question was actually the “O” of the Ohio state flag, but was misinterpreted by Grant and his listeners… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/102 "2021-06-01T23:45:13Z")
I meant NORTH Carolina. 😳 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/103 "2021-06-01T23:45:47Z")
Yes, NORTH Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/104 "2021-06-02T00:27:01Z")
Wow, props to the people of Rockville; that’s a great flag. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/105 "2021-06-02T00:39:13Z")
I also disagree with “easy to draw” principle, because that eliminates a lot of distinctive flags. Wales and Bhutan have already been mentioned, but what about the US and UK flags? At best, someone trying to draw those flags will only get a representation of the flag. There won’t be 50 five pointed stars in the proper framework. The red and white saltires of the union flag can’t be easily drawn either, especially since the flag isn’t symmetrical. Tricolours are boring and not distinctive, but terribly simple to draw. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/106 "2021-06-02T01:14:36Z")
Yup, the US flag is a pretty bad flag, and the Union Jack isn’t too great, either. This is news to you? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/107 "2021-06-02T01:17:38Z")
and yet they are two of the most distinctive flags in the world, whcih suggests that the list of “good flag design” is in fundamental self-conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/108 "2021-06-02T01:36:18Z")
Yes, of course there are tradeoffs. Distinctiveness is good, but it’s not the only good thing. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/109 "2021-06-02T01:49:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have never heard the term “Southern Cross” to refer to the confederate battle flag. I first heard it maybe 30-40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/110 "2021-06-02T01:51:41Z")
See, I would characterize both of those as examples of good flags. I don’t like the American flag because of any inherent patriotism (I don’t like our national anthem, for instance), but I think it’s a well-designed flag, with good symbology, graphically pleasing design, distinctiveness from a distance, and pleasing, simple colors. ETA: Note also that in the “Good Flag, Bad Flag” PDF linked to above, while the US flag is not specifically discussed, every page has a panel of the same flags on it that I presume are all examples of “good flags” of which one is the US flag (heck, our Chicago flag is on it, so it must be good flags. 🙂 And it seems to go along with all their “good flag” examples.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/111 "2021-06-02T02:03:24Z")
Incidentally, if you want the survey of state, province, and territory flags ranked by vexillologists,you can find it here on the last page: [https://nava.org/digital-library/raven/Raven\_v08\_2001\_p011-038.pdf](https://nava.org/digital-library/raven/Raven_v08_2001_p011-038.pdf) The top five are: New Mexico, Texas, Quebec, Maryland, Alaska, Arizona, which actually hits almost all the flags that I like that I mentioned. My other mentioned favorites Ohio was #15, and Colorado #16 (which I said could use some refinement.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/112 "2021-06-02T05:17:04Z")
California ranked 13th, which isn’t bad. But Marylands flag is a disaster, failing badly Rule _1. Keep It Simple (The flag should be so simple that a child can draw_ _it from memory…)_ and also _3. Use 2–3 Basic Colors (Limit the number of colors on the flag to_ _three, which contrast well and come from the standard color set…)_ Not to mention: _2. Use Meaningful Symbolism (The flag’s images, colors, or patterns_ _should relate to what it symbolizes…)_ But it is indeed distinctive. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/113 "2021-06-02T09:32:07Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Passersby have told me they look forward to seeing what goes up next. I hope to eventually have at least 52 so I can fly a different one each week of the year. Try confusing them with some [British county/civic flags](https://britishcountyflags.com/flag-gallery/) ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/114 "2021-06-02T14:05:06Z")
Most of those are really cool. I want. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/115 "2021-06-02T14:11:40Z")
And that’s what takes Maryland over the top. If you read the whole PDF, it basically says at the end rules are made to be broken and points out Maryland’s flag for its distinctive design. Like any type of artistic endeavor, there’s only general guidelines you can glean. Maryland’s indeed, to me, is a mess – I label it as cacophonous upthread, but it “kinda works.” I can’t quite pinpoint what it is about it that works – it’s quirky in all the right ways. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/116 "2021-06-02T14:57:44Z")
Me, too! I’d save the Berkshire flag for commentary and fly one of the “County Divisions” during February, just as a private, out-dated joke. Staffordshire could be the new “beer flag.” I wonder if you can get them in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/117 "2021-06-02T15:05:13Z")
[Some of them](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X7TY3EU?pf_rd_r=FX85GXCS1JW3SPF8H6F2&pf_rd_p=5ae2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8&pd_rd_r=4b681b3a-a21d-4cc6-b406-d5db0741626e&pd_rd_w=ASiBm&pd_rd_wg=JFXEU&ref_=pd_gw_unk), at least. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/118 "2021-06-02T15:13:57Z")
Link isn’t working for me. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/119 "2021-06-02T15:31:09Z")
I don’t think I’d ever heard of the term “Southern Cross” used to describe a Confederate Flag, but apparently the term does go back to the Civil War. I found a 1961 newspaper article that mentions that even then, a lot of people weren’t familiar with the term. Anyway, a. . .eh. . . ‘popular’ song of the Civil War, “The Southern Cross” was written to be sung to the tune of “The Star Spangle Banner.” Lyrics supplied in this snip. Read at your own peril. [https://imgur.com/a/PvShC7n](https://imgur.com/a/PvShC7n) ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252/120 "2021-06-02T16:17:36Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > That depends on the state and the flag. Washington’s state flag is a green flag with the state seal (Washington’s face) in the center. It’s not a good flag design, but I’d be surprised if people in the state didn’t recognize it. I agree that the Washington State flag isn’t traditionally good design, essentially being a difficult to draw state seal. But I do like it despite that. I think the green and yellow make it fairly distinctive. I too would be surprised by locals who don’t recognize it, I feel it’s fairly prominent. Slightly related, the thing I find weird is the state route markers, essentially stamping the number on Washington’s face. It feels disrespectful in some way. Example: [Washington State Route 522 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Route_522). The state’s geographical profile is perfect for a route marker (rectangular, wider than it is tall, distinctive west coast so it’s not confused with one of the perfectly rectangular states). Seems like a missed opportunity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-deal-with-state-flags/943252.md?page=7)