# What’s the worst thing about being an atheist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 25, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166 "2023-04-25T13:18:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/121 "2023-04-26T09:59:28Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > It’s so much easier to say “Be good because God wants you to” and “When you die you go to Heaven” than “Be good out of a humanistic/consquentialist/whatever ethical system” and “When you die you can only hope that the actions of your life leave a positive impact in the world”. Why can’t you say: _“Be good and kind, because good, kind people tend to attract other good, kind people.”_ More succinctly: “Treat others as you would like them to treat you.” You _can_ be nice for selfish reasons. Of course, there is a lot in the New Testament where the Apostles say much the same thing, but just because it is in The Bible, (or any other Holy Book) does not make it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/122 "2023-04-26T12:33:09Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > > [@Tibby](#): > > > > If church ladies’ pot-luck dinners featured T-bone steaks and raspberry pie à la mode, I might convert into a believer. > > I guess loaves and fishes no longer cuts it. Jesus will have to up his game. Indeed, Jesus would have attracted more followers if he was a cook instead of a carpenter. _Get yer red hots right here folks!_ ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/123 "2023-04-26T12:56:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m more on the side of agnostic or doubting-Christian than atheist, but I’d say, the belief/viewpoint that life is all about the **strong** prevailing, not the _right or ethical_ prevailing. In terms of the majority of today’s religious believers, I agree. Of course the irony is that Moses, Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, etc. were all about the right and ethical rather than the strong prevailing. Today’s believers have just perverted and / or ignored those messages. ETA: I consider myself a deist, but that has more to do with (meta)physics rather than morality and ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/124 "2023-04-26T13:12:38Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > > [@Tibby](#): > > > > Actually I am banking on living again after I die, but God won’t be part of the equation, just physics. > > > > If the universe is infinite in time and space, somewhere, sometime, an exact replication of my sub-atomic particles will pop back into existence (perhaps due to a vacuum fluctuation) and I will live again…maybe many times. > > I love to hear a Tegmark fan! > > But, you’re not going to experience this. You’re just going where the candle flames go when you blow the candles out. How do you bank on a replica if you don’t get to be that replica? It’s not like they’re good for anything else to you. Well…they could be good for _something_. Let’s say I commit a crime and the feds bring me in for questioning. I could just point to my replicant-doppelganger and say, _“I didn’t do it, he did. Prove otherwise.”_ But, I agree that it [probably\*] wouldn’t be _you_ who regains consciousness in your re-assembled brain. I wouldn’t bank on it any more than I’d risk taking a trip on a Star Trek transporter. It’s like the Roach Motel: _people check in, but they don’t check out!_ The person checking _out_ of the transporter may think he’s you, and he even has all your memories up to the point of entering the transporter, but that guy committed suicide. He gave birth to his adult identical twin. Man, I wouldn’t want to experience those labor pains. (\*) I say _probably_ only to allow for the slight possibility that it may be possible to become self-aware in a distant re-created brain. If quantum mechanics has taught us anything, it’s that our universe acts in mysterious ways. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/125 "2023-04-26T14:48:59Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > Let’s say I commit a crime and the feds bring me in for questioning. I could just point to my replicant-doppelganger and say, _“I didn’t do it, he did. Prove otherwise.”_ He has an alibi that he was umpteen quintillion light years away at the time. > [@Tibby](#): > > I say _probably_ only to allow for the slight possibility that it may be possible to become self-aware in a distant re-created brain. There will be a self aware creature that thinks that it is you, that has a continuity of existence from the time it stepped into the teleporter to the time it stepped out. You _are_ him. One of the best things, IMHO, of being an atheist is not worrying about souls or other metaphysical objects that wouldn’t get transported. Now we just need a transporter. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/126 "2023-04-26T16:06:50Z")
Here’s something I don’t like about being atheist: getting lumped in with agnostics, in various statistics and reports. You know, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist/Agnostic. I think this is like having the following categories: 1. I believe there is a winged alligator in my attic and he is pink. 2. I believe there is a winged alligator in my attic and he is blue. 3. I believe there is a winged alligator in my attic and he is green. 4. I believe there is a winged alligator in my attic and he is purple. 5. I believe there isn’t/may be a winged alligator in my attic. If forced to take the closest option I’m going to have to take 5, but it’s bizarre and offensive to thereby have to say that I think the winged alligator is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/127 "2023-04-26T16:20:20Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I believe there isn’t/may be a winged alligator in my attic. It’s more, “I don’t think there is a winged alligator in my attic, but I can’t say for absolutely sure.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/128 "2023-04-26T16:30:33Z")
Great. Now I have to avoid deciding on whether there’s a winged alligator in my attic too. You wingedalligatorists are all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/129 "2023-04-26T16:48:13Z")
Look, you might as well believe in the winged alligator. After all, if it doesn’t exist, no harm. But if it does, believing in it might save your life by making you more cautious in areas where winged alligators could possibly exist. So it’s only logical to believe in winged alligators. The athiest response to winged alligators is, “You have evidence? Solid, falsifiable evidence? No? Then why are you wasting my time?” ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/130 "2023-04-26T16:54:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Look, you might as well believe in the winged alligator. After all, if it doesn’t exist, no harm. But if it does, believing in it might save your life by making you more cautious in areas where winged alligators could possibly exist. So it’s only logical to believe in winged alligators. Pascal’s wager was from a quaint time when there was only one god to choose from, at least in Western thought (and it would have been unusual to consider any other context). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/131 "2023-04-26T16:54:40Z")
I mean, you should be happy that it makes your numbers look bigger. A poll that says “34% of America is atheist or agnostic” commands more clout, in perception, than “19% is agnostic and 15% is atheist.” But yeah, I get what you mean, it would be frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/132 "2023-04-26T18:04:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There will be a self aware creature that thinks that it is you, that has a continuity of existence from the time it stepped into the teleporter to the time it stepped out. You _are_ him. How exactly would you maintain continuity of existence _during_ transport? Seems to me that you exist as a conscious being before transport (uninterrupted from the time you gain consciousness, at ~5 months, till the transporter disassembles your particles), and someone who looks, thinks, and remembers being you exists after transport (from the moment your brain particles are reassembled going forward). But, your continuity of consciousness is broken _during_ transport while your particles are disassembled. Would you get into that type of transporter? I wouldn’t. I would cease to exist the moment my particles were disassembled. Think of it this way: there’s nothing special or privileged about the particles that make up your brain, correct? So, it’s theoretically possible to replicate your brain exactly many times over, correct? So, let’s say you (original _you_) remain intact and 10 copies of you are created. Would original you think you are any of your copies? No. You can’t be conscious in more than one place at a time. You are equal but separate. You and all of your copies believe they are you, and you all have a right to believe that. You are the same to all outside observers, but not to any one of you. You are all just incredibly exact identical twins. Your twins simply inherited your memories. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/133 "2023-04-26T18:15:51Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > How exactly would you maintain continuity of existence _during_ transport? Seems to me that you exist as a conscious being before transport (uninterrupted from the time you gain consciousness, at ~5 months, till the transporter disassembles your particles), and someone who looks, thinks, and remembers being you exists after transport (from the moment your brain particles are reassembled going forward). But, your continuity of consciousness is broken _during_ transport while your particles are disassembled. How do you maintain continuity of existence when you sleep? Or when you are sedated for surgery? Or if you have your heart and brain function stopped then started again? I assume that if I died and through sheer randomness a version of me existed somewhere that ‘woke up’ with all my memories intact up to the moment before I died, that version would assume it was teleported to the new place and for all intents and purposes would b e ‘me’. Continuity of existence would be maintained. The ‘me’ that died would experience nothing at all, so I’m not sure it’s any different than being in a transporter or having your body shut down for surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/134 "2023-04-26T18:27:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > How do you maintain continuity of existence when you sleep? Or when you are sedated for surgery? Or if you have your heart and brain function stopped then started again? Your brain remains intact while you sleep, or are sedated. At least mine does. Sleeping and general anesthesia makes you unconscious, not non-conscious. The matrix upon which your consciousness emerged remains intact from the moment you’re born till they day you become brain dead. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/135 "2023-04-26T18:36:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > To answer the question in the OP, the worst thing for me is knowing that the relgionistas will never find out they are wrong. > Wouldn’t it be great if some entity dressed in black with a scythe greeted the newly dead with “I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING, BUT IT IS NOT WHERE YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE.” See the start of [post 108](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/108), but I like your imagery better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/136 "2023-04-26T18:44:22Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Pascal’s wager was from a quaint time when there was only one god to choose from, at least in Western thought (and it would have been unusual to consider any other context). Pascal was well aware of other gods from antiquity, but saying one believed in them was a life limiting move. Or even that they were valid possibilities. > [@Velocity](#): > > A poll that says “34% of America is atheist or agnostic” commands more clout, in perception, than “19% is agnostic and 15% is atheist.” > > But yeah, I get what you mean, it would be frustrating. The problem with this is that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive positions. Most atheists I know are agnostic atheists. We lack belief in any god (atheist) but don’t claim knowledge that no gods exist (agnostic.) I know that people use agnostic as a form of wishy-washy atheism, since the theists are less upset at someone saying they don’t know as opposed to saying they lack belief. That also assumes agnosticism is about our current state of knowledge as opposed to possible knowledge. We can’t possibly know that no gods exist, but we can know that some god exists. But currently we don’t know either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/137 "2023-04-26T18:48:44Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > How exactly would you maintain continuity of existence _during_ transport? Same way I maintain continuity of existence when I sleep. > [@Tibby](#): > > Would you get into that type of transporter? I wouldn’t. I would cease to exist the moment my particles were disassembled. If it was reliable, and I wanted to get where it was going, sure. If it were the only way to avoid certain death, would you? > [@Tibby](#): > > Think of it this way: there’s nothing special or privileged about the particles that make up your brain, correct? So, it’s theoretically possible to replicate your brain exactly many times over, correct? So, let’s say you (original _you_) remain intact and 10 copies of you are created. Would original you think you are any of your copies? No. You can’t be conscious in more than one place at a time. I would be conscious in 11 places at once. The moment of the copying, our existences will begin to diverge, but each one of them will be _me_. Sure, without telepathy, I can’t _experience_ them all at once, but that doesn’t mean that each one of them isn’t experiencing being me. > [@Tibby](#): > > You are the same to all outside observers, but not to any one of you. You are all just incredibly exact identical twins. Your twins simply inherited your memories. So, let’s say that the multiverse is true, and that every tiny fraction of a second, the universe splits. Which universe are you in? Does the other universe not contain a you? Without invoking some sort of supernatural soul or other metaphysical object that cannot be copied, they are not identical twins with my memories, they are me. Each one of them will have their own new perspective, and only be able to experience their one, but they would _all_ be having that experience. > [@Tibby](#): > > Your brain remains intact while you sleep, or are sedated. At least mine does. Sleeping and general anesthesia makes you unconscious, not non-conscious. So, you are at the dentist’s office having some teeth pulled. You fall unconscious in one room, and wake up in another. How do you know you weren’t teleported there? (Other than lack of technology to do so, of course) Would you feel any differently if you had been? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/138 "2023-04-26T19:03:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I would be conscious in 11 places at once. > > The moment of the copying, our existences will begin to diverge, but each one of them will be _me_. > > Sure, without telepathy, I can’t _experience_ them all at once, but that doesn’t mean that each one of them isn’t experiencing being me. Yes, they are all me to everyone _except_ me. It would make no difference to me whether I commit suicide with or without exact copies of myself in existence. They will all lead happy lives being me, but I’ll be dead. My wife (if I still had one) wouldn’t mind, she’d have 10 versions of me to nag. 😃 I posed a similar question on these boards 18 years ago [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-gotta-split-paradox/327391). It doesn’t get interesting until about mid-way through the thread. My beliefs remain essentially the same now as then. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/139 "2023-04-26T19:07:33Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > Your brain remains intact while you sleep, or are sedated. At least mine does. Sleeping and general anesthesia makes you unconscious, not non-conscious. The matrix upon which your consciousness emerged remains intact from the moment you’re born till they day you become brain dead. Really? How about people who have all bodily functions stopped for surgery? No heart or brain activity at all. How about people who have been drowned in ice water, had all bodily functions stopped, then were revived? People have been rescusitated after 6 hours or more of ‘drowning’ in cold water and not showing any signs of heart or brain activity. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166/140 "2023-04-26T19:17:05Z")
Again, in all those scenarios, the brain remains intact. Consciousness may be temporarily dormant, but the matrix upon which it emerged and resides remains continuously intact and able to fire consciousness back up when able to do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-s-the-worst-thing-about-being-an-atheist/983166.md?page=8)