# What separates "debate" from "bickering"? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545 "2011-05-20T06:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/1 "2011-05-20T06:29:53Z")
I’m just curious if this is some of tom’s bias or whatever, but: > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/355): > > CitizenPained and ElvisL1ves, take your bickering to the BBQ Pit. > > Endless rounds of “nuh uh” and “you’re the _real_ poopyhead” are doing nothing to promote a discussion in this thread. > > [/Moderating] took me by suprise, since I thought I’d been pretty even-handed in response to Elvis’s constant “You don’t know anything! Fuck! Fuck! FUCCCCCCCCCCCK!” commentary. Is this tom’s way of squashing debate? Elvis made a comment regarding Begin, asking if we could see someone like Begin ‘come forward’ again, and I wasn’t sure if it was supposed to be positive or negative. He then turned it into a “You don’t know _anything_, you peace-hater!” attack. [wtf](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13817655&postcount=287) [mate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13820433&postcount=345) [?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13820459&postcount=347) (Nevermind that Israel & Egypt relations are **nothing like Israeli & PLO relationsfor a reason** …but all I did was ask which era of Begin he was referring to.) pee ess: Is misquoting against the rules? **I** never said anything about maps. oops: Forgot to add what started it all: > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/267): > > An overbroad statement, OK, but the reference was to the ideals of peace. Can you even imagine a Begin emerging today? > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/268): > > So you are saying that Israelis don’t want peace and Palestinians do? > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/269): > > More broad statements: Both are doing what they think they have to do to ensure their own survival and security. Neither currently has the vision to understand, and courage to do, what it takes to make it happen on any other basis than violence, though - which ensures it won’t happen at all. > > So, can \*you \*imagine a Begin emerging today? > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/274): > > Except one recognizes the other’s right to _existence_. > > Half of Israel’s Parliament and most of the population want a two state solution, like, yesterday. It’s not that the rest deny it – the # of Jews who think the whole land is theirs for the taking is slim - but they are worried about certain cities that have since flourished for the last 40 years that could be returned if it falls on the 67 line. > > Not to mention Jerusalem. > Isn’t his name Netanyahu? :o No, seriously - in regards to what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/2 "2011-05-20T12:57:26Z")
Gravitas. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/3 "2011-05-20T13:25:33Z")
> [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/351): > > Not at all. Your confusion is quite obviously sincere. > > If you don’t even know about the peace treaty with Egypt, much less about how it came about, then the ignorance is not mine. > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/352): > > I am well versed in Israel’s wars. You seemed to think of Begin as…some kind of moral hero or something. With all of your virulent rhetoric, I figured you were speaking negatively of him. > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/353): > > Then the responsibility for your confusion is entirely your own. > > Now do please go study the history Israel-Egypt peace treaty before your confusion spreads further. > [@Left wing antisemitism](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/left-wing-antisemitism/581985/354): > > Again, I’m sorry you don’t understand Israeli political history enough to get the joke. I think the quotes that you have in the OP are debate, but **tom** ’s post came after this little back and forth, which seems a lot like bickering to me. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/4 "2011-05-20T19:24:18Z")
Not to speak for **tom** , but IMO the difference between debate and bickering is when you make your remarks personal and criticize the other poster rather than their argument. The posts you quoted in the OP are debate. The posts **Darth Panda** quoted are bickering. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/5 "2011-05-21T03:58:06Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I think the quotes that you have in the OP are debate, but **tom** ’s post came after this little back and forth, which seems a lot like bickering to me. YMMV. I’m pretty opinionated on certain things, and foreign policy is one. But I really don’t try to make personal attacks because it detracts from the debate…the only thing I could really say (after explaining my confusion to his ambiguity) is, hey, sorry you don’t get what I’m saying. There was no _you’re a big poopyhead_ about it. It isn’t the first time **tom** has accused me of bickering…note that in my posts, I continued on with the actual _debate_ while Elvis has continued to insult me wherever I post re: Israel. So when someone makes a comment about a leader that spent his whole life in Israeli politics, it’s only natural to question which era of leadership someone is speaking about. (Begin was part of the so-called “Stern Gang” and the founder of Likud – something that Elvis is very much against.) I’m\* hardly\* a right-winger. I just try to evaluate things as they are instead of how I want them to be. Israel is one of the few countries where foreign policy initiatives really do change with a new government. America is not like that. I know there’s mod bias here on SD, but sometimes it’s too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/6 "2011-05-21T04:01:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not to speak for **tom** , but IMO the difference between debate and bickering is when you make your remarks personal and criticize the other poster rather than their argument. > > The posts you quoted in the OP are debate. > > The posts **Darth Panda** quoted are bickering. So what am I supposed to say when someone claims I don’t know history and my failure to understand his ambiguity ‘says a lot about me’? I explained my confusion. It didn’t stop the snark. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/7 "2011-05-21T04:09:27Z")
As I’ve said before, it would be more truthful if _Great Debates_ was renamed _The Argument Sketch from Monty Python_. It is rarely “Great” and no more frequently a “Debate.” ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/8 "2011-05-21T06:11:09Z")
Is [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13825408&postcount=189) an official warning or a slap on the wrist? When does one get ‘moderated’ and one get ‘warned’? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/9 "2011-05-21T06:32:51Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Is [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13825408&postcount=189) an official warning or a slap on the wrist? It’s a mod note. Official warnings have the word “warning” in them. > [@](#): > > When does one get ‘moderated’ and one get ‘warned’? It’s a judgment call, but the general idea is that moderator notes are for things that are borderline and warnings are for things that are clearly against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/10 "2011-05-21T06:51:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s a mod note. Official warnings have the word “warning” in them. > It’s a judgment call, but the general idea is that moderator notes are for things that are borderline and warnings are for things that are clearly against the rules. I had no idea that telling someone to suck on that (a euphemism for sucking on a penis) wasn’t against the rules. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/11 "2011-05-21T07:04:39Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I had no idea that telling someone to suck on that (a euphemism for sucking on a penis) wasn’t against the rules. Damn. **Diogenes the Cynic** said “Suck on that” after posting a cite he felt supported his argument. It’s childish and confrontational but slightly less crude than you’re suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/12 "2011-05-21T07:23:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Diogenes the Cynic** said “Suck on that” after posting a cite he felt supported his argument. It’s childish and confrontational but slightly less crude than you’re suggesting. ah, well, I can feel better knowing that he was pwned anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-separates-debate-from-bickering/582545/13 "2011-05-21T07:30:46Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > So what am I supposed to say when someone claims I don’t know history and my failure to understand his ambiguity ‘says a lot about me’? > > I explained my confusion. It didn’t stop the snark. Report the post and let a moderator evaluate it. And you could also take the high road and ignore the snark.