# What seperates punk from other rock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266 "2003-03-22T02:12:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/21 "2003-03-23T07:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*The Ramones and Sex Pistols were both punk, but yet didn’t have a commonality that I can think of. > Anyway, I think my question has been answered. Thanks. \*\* Then you need a Q-tip. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/22 "2003-03-23T21:27:28Z")
A complete and utter lack of irony on the part of the musicians. Which isn’t a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/23 "2003-03-23T21:53:38Z")
Are The Donnas punk ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/24 "2003-03-24T01:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Are The Donnas punk \*\* Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/25 "2003-03-24T03:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Are The Donnas punk \*\* No. ---
**Author:** ![gorillacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@gorillacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gorillacus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/26 "2003-03-24T05:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Are The Donnas punk \*\* If you want ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/27 "2003-03-24T11:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\*Are The Donnas punk \*\* Alright, seven then. But not until my father gets home. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/28 "2003-03-24T12:23:44Z")
What is punk? Mu. Moo? What the fuck does that mean? Mu. Say moo one more time, motherfucker. I dare you. I double dare you. Maah. _Define punk, goddamnit!_ Fuck you. This is boring. I’m gonna do what I want. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![finn1911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d78d45/32.png) [@finn1911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finn1911)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/29 "2003-03-24T13:29:38Z")
All I know is that i don’t know nothin! ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/30 "2003-03-24T17:54:29Z")
Were The Ramones punk? I know everyone calls them punk and they worked hard to establish the punk “look”, but as **Joel** points out, sometimes it is hard to see the connection. I have always thought of the Ramones as being a side branch–part of the “campy punk” group. This would also include The Dickies and The Dead Milkmen. Was Husker Du punk? In this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=169710)_Zen Arcade_ was listed as a best punk album. Was Husker Du really punk, or were they really “proto-grunge” along the lines of The Replacements, fIREHOSE, and The Pixies? Were the Violent Femmes punk? I am not sure what album **Kyomara** has been listening to that qualifies as punk, but the Femmes are missing so many hallmarks of the genre that it would be quite a stretch so put them in that category. I would say that they are in that nebulous “alternative” or “college-rock” category with groups like They Might Be Giants and Camper Van Beethoven. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/31 "2003-03-25T13:22:15Z")
Well, _that_ clears everything right up! ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/32 "2003-03-25T17:24:14Z")
By and large, punk is what punks listen to. Who’s a punk? Well, it’s someone who listens to punk. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/33 "2003-03-25T17:25:41Z")
Actually, I think **Derleth** gave the best answer. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/34 "2003-03-27T16:24:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JKilez \* > \*\*I am not sure what album **Kyomara** has been listening to that qualifies as punk, but the Femmes are missing so many hallmarks of the genre that it would be quite a stretch so put them in that category. I would say that they are in that nebulous “alternative” or “college-rock” category with groups like They Might Be Giants and Camper Van Beethoven. \*\* I don’t wanna argue. But the album I listened to was the one where they performed short, low-fi pop songs with a passionate and (this is key) fuck-you attitude. The one they made after they were discovered singing to people waiting to buy tickets for a Pretenders show. You know, like…ALL their albums. But I don’t wanna argue 😃 ---
**Author:** ![djwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@djwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djwalker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/35 "2003-03-27T18:12:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aslan2 \* > \*\*Short songs, a few lines with lots of repeating of main ideas, best if the music drowns out the singing 😉 \*\* Good definition. I’d add: really p.o.'d attitude, and from a group formed in the 70’s. Anythng after that is not punk. It may sound punkish, but it ain’t punk. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/36 "2003-03-27T18:40:29Z")
An alternative definition: Up-tempo guitar-driven music in which emotional expression is valued above technical merit. When punk or hardcore bands start getting _good_, suddenly they’re too polished for the scene, or are held up as a “unique” sort of band. Witness Bad Brains, Dag Nasty, and Fugazi: all of them fall into what I would call harDCore, none of them are accepted as such by all harDCore fans. Dag Nasty in particular met with a lot of resistance from the DC scene, which they described in their song “[Justification](http://www.punkbands.com/lyrics/bands/dagnasty/canisay.htm).” ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/37 "2003-03-27T20:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Good definition. I’d add: really p.o.'d attitude, and from a group formed in the 70’s. Anythng after that is not punk. It may sound punkish, but it ain’t punk. The 70’s? Jeez, the elitists just get more and more demanding every day. Most of them can at least deal with the early 80’s. Ah well, I’ll just go listen to Op Ivy… the band that sounds like punk, acts like punk, but can’t possibly be punk because it’s just not like that music we had back in the old days when we had to walk 50 miles **uphill** IN THE SNOW just to see our favorite band play! Kids these days! :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Up-tempo guitar-driven music in which emotional expression is valued above technical merit. I think that’s the best definition I’ve heard so far. 🙂 Of course, there are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![djwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@djwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djwalker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/38 "2003-03-27T21:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tanaqui \* > \*\*The 70’s? Jeez, the elitists just get more and more demanding every day. Most of them can at least deal with the early 80’s. > > Ah well, I’ll just go listen to Op Ivy… the band that sounds like punk, acts like punk, but can’t possibly be punk because it’s just not like that music we had back in the old days when we had to walk 50 miles **uphill** IN THE SNOW just to see our favorite band play! Kids these days! :rolleyes: > > \*\* Let’s not be snide, whippersnapper. The original, intangible spirit that was as much the definition of punk as the sound, just didn’t make it much past the end of the 70’s. Sorry for thinking so; I still think I’m right. Not that there aren’t some new bands that come close to the sound of the spirit, it just isn’t the same. It’s like calling Led Zep a blues band; yeah, there are similarities, but it’s not the same. Now go get a haircut, hippie. 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/39 "2003-03-27T21:23:32Z")
The “gobbling” [spitting at the musicians]. No other music fans do that, thank God. ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266/40 "2003-03-27T22:23:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Scrivener \* > \*\*The “gobbling” [spitting at the musicians]. No other music fans do that, thank God. \*\* I think it would be great of fans of “Boy Bands” would take it up.😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-seperates-punk-from-other-rock/163266.md?page=3)