# What set Guns N' Roses apart? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671 "2017-06-23T07:03:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/41 "2017-06-26T21:14:38Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Oh yeah, I wasn’t looking to slam you or other folks posting now. Heck, I always have to cop to listening to Ted Nugent back in the day. But teenagers care about what boxes they like and what boxes their music goes in way more than they need to, and GnR was an example where people needed to get outside their favorite boxes and hear the music. > > **FoisGras** , yeah, GnR idolizing Aerosmith is a thing, esp Slash loving Joe Perry. You know the story about Slash buying Joe’s legendary 50’s Les Paul darkburst don’t you? > > [Guitar Player - Gear](http://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/1012/how-slash-reunited-joe-perry-with-a-prized-59-les-paul/48100) Didn’t Slash give it back to him once Aerosmith became profitable again? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/42 "2017-06-26T21:40:05Z")
Yes - that’s in the link. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/43 "2017-06-26T21:40:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You’ve posted twice now things that I can’t figure out what have to do with G N’ R in their prime. Perhaps you can explain? i was responding to the following post: Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post "I am related to him. Cool guy. They are still around is the critical thing. Yes, great music, but longevity without becoming a parody of themselves has worked." Longevity and failing to be a parody are not what they are known for TSTL. They must be judged on one LP? Not valid to look at what happened while they tried desperately to follow it up, in the months after, and then years and then decades after? It says something to me about the musicians and the qualities, longevity, and seriousness of intent, thereof. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/44 "2017-06-26T21:43:29Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yes - that’s in the link. I remember that from watching…Conan, I think? I didn’t watch beyond the first video, where Cantrell seemed obviously on blow, sniffing like he was, and Slash kept fiddling with his nose too. I don’t begrudge them that, at all. It’s rockstar territory. If you don’t have Tupperwares full of blow and nubile wenches gathering backstage after a show, you’re doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/45 "2017-06-26T21:44:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > By the early 90s, the hair metal aesthetic was decidedly “lame”, having been replaced by “grunge” or “alt rock”. Bands like Guns N’ Roses, and Metallica stayed relevant because they also appealed to fans of bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden (also because they rock). Aerosmith too, but with a bit more of a pop sensibility (such as all those Alicia Silverstone / Liv Tyler videos and Michael Bay soundtracks) What I recall was that the hair bands were dying out by say… 1990-ish, and grunge didn’t really get rolling until about 1992. There was a kind of rock limbo during that stretch where Metallica and GnR were sort of the last bands standing. Once “Nevermind” hit it big, the grunge era was in full swing, with bands like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains sort of emerged from the alternative underworld where they had previously been toiling somewhat obscurely. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/46 "2017-06-26T21:49:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What I recall was that the hair bands were dying out by say… 1990-ish, and grunge didn’t really get rolling until about 1992. There was a kind of rock limbo during that stretch where Metallica and GnR were sort of the last bands standing. > > Once “Nevermind” hit it big, the grunge era was in full swing, with bands like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains sort of emerged from the alternative underworld where they had previously been toiling somewhat obscurely. > > Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk I never thought of Pearl Jam as obscure…when “Ten” came out it was HUGE, just like “Nevermind”. I think they shared a lot of the same space besides being markedly different bands. Nirvana to me was “truer” grunge that relied a lot on it’s punk roots, Pearl Jam seemed (to me) to be more of a somewhat disjointed (in a good way) jam band that was more Phish than Ramones. But Vedder was an excellent singer, better than Cobain, IMO. Nirvana wrote more angsty songs while Pearl Jam seemed more focused on general social issues. I love them both equally. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/47 "2017-06-26T22:07:51Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What I recall was that the hair bands were dying out by say… 1990-ish, and grunge didn’t really get rolling until about 1992. There was a kind of rock limbo during that stretch where Metallica and GnR were sort of the last bands standing. That sounds about right to me, but I might put it even earlier, to 1988/1989-ish. There was also Living Colour’s _Vivid_ and Faith No More’s _The Real Thing_ that served as a bit of a transitional space in between hair metal and grunge. I actually thought that mainstream rock was going to move towards the power-pop side of what was known as “alternative” back then, along the lines of bands like Redd Kross, Material Issue, that sort of thing, but then was a little surprised when the darker, moodier grunge side of things captured the popular imagination. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/48 "2017-06-26T22:08:09Z")
Observations: - Alice in Chains is a lot like GnR in terms of sound. A darker take on heroin, for obvious reasons. But AiC benefitted from being asscociated with grunge vs GnR with Poison and other LA hair metal. - the difference in mastering techniques was a big deal between GnR and Grunge. Grunge is where, to my knowledge, they really starting compressing the masters so they could even out extremes and then raise the overall volume considerably. That’s when songs got LOUDER, remember? And why Territorial Pissings off Nevermind sounds so shiny and loud without hurting. If GnR was mastered that way, it would sound grungier, and less Aerosmith-y. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/49 "2017-06-26T22:22:07Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Observations: > > - Alice in Chains is a lot like GnR in terms of sound. A darker take on heroin, for obvious reasons. But AiC benefitted from being asscociated with grunge vs GnR with Poison and other LA hair metal. > > - the difference in mastering techniques was a big deal between GnR and Grunge. Grunge is where, to my knowledge, they really starting compressing the masters so they could even out extremes and then raise the overall volume considerably. That’s when songs got LOUDER, remember? And why Territorial Pissings off Nevermind sounds so shiny and loud without hurting. If GnR was mastered that way, it would sound grungier, and less Aerosmith-y. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen _Hype!_, the Seattle music documentary (not just grunge–they also have the pop-punk/power side of the scene there), but I’ve always enjoyed this guitarist’s (Leighton Beezer of the Throw Ups) summary of [how punk rock became grunge](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs5VL2NWV3E). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/50 "2017-06-26T22:29:52Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > i was responding to the following post: > > Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post > "I am related to him. Cool guy. > > They are still around is the critical thing. Yes, great music, but longevity without becoming a parody of themselves has worked." > > Longevity and failing to be a parody are not what they are known for TSTL. > > They must be judged on one LP? Not valid to look at what happened while they tried desperately to follow it up, in the months after, and then years and then decades after? It says something to me about the musicians and the qualities, longevity, and seriousness of intent, thereof. YMMV. Sorry, even after your repost and explanation, it remains incomprehensible to me. They were founded in 1985, and are still playing. Longevity. Lots of tours. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/51 "2017-06-26T22:51:51Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Observations: > > - Alice in Chains is a lot like GnR in terms of sound. A darker take on heroin, for obvious reasons. But AiC benefitted from being asscociated with grunge vs GnR with Poison and other LA hair metal. > > - the difference in mastering techniques was a big deal between GnR and Grunge. Grunge is where, to my knowledge, they really starting compressing the masters so they could even out extremes and then raise the overall volume considerably. That’s when songs got LOUDER, remember? And why Territorial Pissings off Nevermind sounds so shiny and loud without hurting. If GnR was mastered that way, it would sound grungier, and less Aerosmith-y. The loudness wars began after grunge. Nirvana was known for their use of dynamics (ala Pixies). ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/52 "2017-06-26T23:07:29Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > The loudness wars began after grunge. Nirvana was known for their use of dynamics (ala Pixies). Sorry, you miss my point. This isn’t about the dynamics of the band; of course you are correct there. This is about mastering the tracks post-production. If you compress the track it flattens out spikes in the signal so you can then raise the level of the signal overall, if that makes sense. I can’t say for sure when the Compression Wars actually begun, but I hear it all over Nevermind. Here’s the Wiki entry on it: [Loudness war - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/53 "2017-06-27T16:06:47Z")
I think GnR hit it big because hair metal was getting ridiculous and the band had a great angry raw hard rock sound, while still being accessible with songs like Sweet Child of Mine and Paradise City. They bridged hair metal, hard rock, and metal pretty successfully. They were entertaining to look at. Skinny Axl jumping around and wailing like a rock banshee, Slash with his big mop of hair and tophat, Duff’s bright blonde hair, silent somewhat menacing Izzy. And Axl’s antics always made them a wild card. When you went to a show you never knew if you’d get a prime GnR performance or 3 songs and then a storm-off. That is once they finally showed up. So yeah Welcome to the Jungle and Sweet Child of Mine were big hits and they would have done pretty well based on that. But what really drove the Appetite album home for me was listening to the album and hearing the 2nd song, “It’s So Easy.” Pretty good grungy LA rock sound, quite catchy. Then comes the “FUCK OFF!” and my teen eyes opened. This was when most “mainstream” rock albums like Metallica, Motley Crue, Poison, etc. had no cursing at all. GnR not only looked rough and sleazy, they were and weren’t afraid to curse on their albums. There’s even the n-word on the GnR Lies EP. GnR and Public Enemy were a big part of the reason we got Parental Advisory stickers on albums and young adults loved it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/54 "2017-06-27T17:17:22Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > This was when most “mainstream” rock albums like Metallica, Motley Crue, Poison, etc. had no cursing at all. GnR not only looked rough and sleazy, they were and weren’t afraid to curse on their albums. Metallica certainly had some curse words on some of their albums. (And at the time of _Appetite_, they were not what I would call mainstream rock. For me, they didn’t hit that mark until Bob Rock and the self-titled “black album.”) “Damage Inc” (the album closest in time to Appetite) had the lines “Fuck it all and fuckin no regrets/never happy ending on these dark sets.” Much earlier, they had “Am I Evil” with “yes I fucking am,” and a couple of “fucks” in Whiplash, too. They did not especially make a habit of cursing, but it was there. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/55 "2017-06-27T17:24:26Z")
That should read “Damage Inc” from the album _Master of Puppets_. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/56 "2017-06-27T17:28:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That should read “Damage Inc” from the album _Master of Puppets_. One of my favorite Metallica songs, too. Total moshpit music. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/57 "2017-06-27T19:07:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Metallica certainly had some curse words on some of their albums. (And at the time of _Appetite_, they were not what I would call mainstream rock. For me, they didn’t hit that mark until Bob Rock and the self-titled “black album.”) “Damage Inc” (the album closest in time to Appetite) had the lines “Fuck it all and fuckin no regrets/never happy ending on these dark sets.” Much earlier, they had “Am I Evil” with “yes I fucking am,” and a couple of “fucks” in Whiplash, too. They did not especially make a habit of cursing, but it was there. Good points, but Metallica just seemed to keep the cursing more rare and subtle until some of their later albums where they covered songs like “Last Caress.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/58 "2017-06-27T19:19:12Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Good points, but Metallica just seemed to keep the cursing more rare and subtle until some of their later albums where they covered songs like “Last Caress.” And, actually, if you were a Metallica fan, you probably had that cover at the time of _Appetite_, as it was part of _Garage Days Re-Revisited_ EP, which came out in August of 1987. That said, I don’t remember there being any swearing on that song, but it looks like there may be a “fucking” in the Green Hell part of the “Last Caress/Green Hell” medley. If you want Metallica covers with lots of swearing, look to Anti-Nowhere League’s “So What?” The cover appeared as a bonus track to the black album in some markets (Japan?) and the B-Side of the US single for “Sad But True.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/59 "2017-06-28T02:50:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What I recall was that the hair bands were dying out by say… 1990-ish, and grunge didn’t really get rolling until about 1992. There was a kind of rock limbo during that stretch where Metallica and GnR were sort of the last bands standing. > > Once “Nevermind” hit it big, the grunge era was in full swing, with bands like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains sort of emerged from the alternative underworld where they had previously been toiling somewhat obscurely. That all happened my freshman year of college in 1991 / 1992, so I’d say that’s accurate. What I remember of the summer of 1991 was hairbands like Scorpions and Van Halen putting out more “adult contemporary rock” (Winds of Change and Right Now respectively). Alice in Chains had some breakthrough “metal” songs. But it wasn’t until the fall of 1991 when Nevermind and Ten started getting tons of play and “Grunge” was now a thing. Let’s also not forget GnR’s contribution on the Terminator 2 soundtrack. You Could Be Mine was like the song of the summer. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671/60 "2017-06-28T14:14:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That all happened my freshman year of college in 1991 / 1992, so I’d say that’s accurate. What I remember of the summer of 1991 was hairbands like Scorpions and Van Halen putting out more “adult contemporary rock” (Winds of Change and Right Now respectively). Alice in Chains had some breakthrough “metal” songs. But it wasn’t until the fall of 1991 when Nevermind and Ten started getting tons of play and “Grunge” was now a thing. > > Let’s also not forget GnR’s contribution on the Terminator 2 soundtrack. You Could Be Mine was like the song of the summer. I started college fall of 88 and grunge was definitely a thing already at my school. 89 it really heated up - Bleach was huge on my campus along with the first two Soundgarden albums, Melvins, Screaming Trees, etc. Of course, I went to school right near the epicenter so these were local bands. However, mixed with this was Appetite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-set-guns-n-roses-apart/789671.md?page=4)