# What share of those you know believe in Creationism? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2013, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708 "2013-09-26T07:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/61 "2013-09-26T20:29:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think Catholics believe that we were the intended end product. Nope. Intelligent Design and the Omega Point are Teilhard de Chardin’s work, but it’s not dogma: neither the RCC as an institution nor the majority of Catholics believe that. On one hand, a large amount of Catholics wouldn’t know who TdC is, nor have they heard of his hypothesis; on the other, there is nothing which makes it necessary for God to have designed His “intended end product” exactly as we are, or for us to be the only version of it. TdC’s work was an important exercise, but it was like going from butt-slipping to crawling - nowhere near the final desired action. There are many of us who believe in a Clockwork God who occasionally adjusts the machinery, there are many who believe we’re not the only species to have souls, there are many who are perfectly happy to accept both “God made the world” and “evolution happens” without getting into details. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/62 "2013-09-26T20:51:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > For the purpose of this discussion you would have to go with what was originally asked in the Gallup poll linked in the OP. > > It asked which of the following statements comes closest to your views of the origin and development of human beings? > > 1. Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided the process. > > 2. Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life but god had no part in this process. > > 3. God created humans in pretty much their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so. > > The poll showed that 46% of the population believed in #3. The OP asks how many people you know who believe in #3. #1 and #2 are not part of this question. That’s a question far more related to belief in evolution than in Creationism. Creationism can start from “God created the Big Bang” to as far as “God created everything as it exists today.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/63 "2013-09-26T20:54:38Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > That’s a question far more related to belief in evolution than in Creationism. Creationism can start from “God created the Big Bang” to as far as “God created everything as it exists today.” “God created the Big Bang” would fall under #2 which the poll states 32% of Americans believe. This isn’t about them. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/64 "2013-09-26T21:01:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > “God created the Big Bang” would fall under #2 which the poll states 32% of Americans believe. > > This isn’t about them. How do you get to define this? You are not the OP, nor did the OP define some choice of which version of creationsm is relevant to answering the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/65 "2013-09-26T21:07:11Z")
I was out with a colleague at work one day when the conversation fell to religion, he described his belief in the literal word of the bible, I burst out laughing only to see his distinctly unamused face, “No, I really do believe that…” Whoops, until that point my knowing interaction with real-life creationists was zero. I’m from Northern Ireland, I knew hardline biblical literalists existed, I just had never met one before. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/66 "2013-09-26T21:07:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > How do you get to define this? You are not the OP, nor did the OP define some choice of which version of creationsm is relevant to answering the poll. Its right there in the OP. Maybe he could have fleshed out the OP a bit but its not that hard to understand. The OP states that 46% of Americans believe in Creationism. The link provided goes right to the poll which defines what that means. I just repeated it. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/67 "2013-09-26T21:08:52Z")
I’ve never met anyone who knew they were _A Creationist_, but I met quite a few people in Brazil who had never heard of evolution but did know about Genesis. They were usually also illiterate though, so I didn’t vote in the poll so as not to skew the results. I worked in a children’s home there, and when we’d get new kids in the others used to delight in telling them about evolution just to blow their minds. It was pretty funny to watch, and made me quite proud of how we taught them. Some of them could talk a newbie through some serious biology, epistemology and philosophy of science at a pretty rapid pace. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@CLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CLee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/68 "2013-09-26T21:12:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Its right there in the OP. Maybe he could have fleshed out the OP a bit but its not that hard to understand. > > The OP states that 46% of Americans believe in Creationism. The link provided goes right to the poll which defines what that means. I just repeated it. What percentage of Christians believe that God had nothing whatsoever to do with our origins? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/69 "2013-09-27T00:10:36Z")
I’m guessing at least 50-60%. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/70 "2013-09-27T00:19:59Z")
I am not aware of knowing anybody who believes in creationism, Of course, it is not a topic that often comes up in conversation with most people. On the other hand, I did spend many years teaching the history of science, including Darwin’s career and the historical background to his thought, in a US university. I never had a student object, or indicate that they did not believe in evolution, although certainly some were religious (mostly Catholic, I expect, given the demographics). One student asked me if there really was a firm consensus amongst scientists about the matter. I told him yes, and he seemed satisfied. My ex-wife is Congregationalist, and sings in her church choir, but she has a biology degree and firmly believes in evolution (consistently with her church’s teachings). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/71 "2013-09-27T00:24:04Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Most of my clients are deeply religious Biblical literalists, and so I suppose they probably believe in Creationism, but the topic’s never come up (other religious topics have, but not that one). They are elderly African Americans, most of whom grew up in rural Alabama and Mississippi, and most left school before 8th grade. They’re largely Southern Baptist and Jehovah’s Witness. > > So well over 90% of the people I see everyday are likely Creationists, but they’re not part of my family or social group. I don’t know or suspect there are any in my family or social group. Did you vote, “Over 2/3”? Because I intended to ask about all acquaintances rather than limit it to those close to you. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > As for how many hold creationist beliefs themselves, it’s impossible to say, for two reasons. > > One, it’s not something I’ve discussed at all with most of the people I know. > > And two, the term “creationism” is impossibly vague. Who counts as a creationist? I am always reminded, in threads like these, of the old “[Ask the Creationist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=316250)” thread, in which the OP, after starting the thread with the assertion “Yes, I’m a creationist,” soon followed this up in later posts with “I believe that God created the universe, and that He/She/It guided the development of life. Beyond that I don’t know. I don’t take the Book of Genesis literally” and “I do accept evolution. I just think God gave it a jumpstart.” > [@shiftless](#): > > I don’t think that’s a fair question. I know plenty of people who believe that “God created the world” but they could never be called Creationists. Most of them don’t spend any time worrying about the fight between the Creationists and the Evolutionist. They aren’t interested in the fine details of how God did it. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Depends on how you define creationism. If you consider it to be people who believe it was created in six days in 4004 BC or thereabouts, very few if any, and those who do aren’t going to admit it publicly. If you consider it to be somewhere on the continuum between that and that some higher power created the Earth and Universe, most of them. > [@bup](#): > > According to Measure’s link in the OP, > > So that’s, at least, the definition of Creationism \*they \*were using. > > (response to **CLee** ) CLee has a solid interpretation. What I had in mind though was merely the flip side of “Accept evolution”. Except that didn’t match the poll the most closely, so I took the creationist angle. Anyway, by my way of thinking the Catholic Church is not creationist since they don’t have a problem with the world being older than 10,000 years and they teach evolution in their schools. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > How do you get to define this? You are not the OP, nor did the OP define some choice of which version of creationism is relevant to answering the poll. Unfortunately, I’m the original poster, but it’s a little late for me to be clarifying the original post. Apologies to all. ## Anyway, I’m not surprised that less than 10% answered, “Between 1/3 and 2/3”, despite the fact that 1/2 of the country believes in creationism. Oh, and here’s a tip for a select number of Xtian haters: check out the number of those voting “Less than 1/3”. There are plenty of Christians who believe in evolution and that furthermore put Young Earth Creationism under the category of “Crackpot”. Similarly, I acknowledge that there are parts of the US where disbelief in evolution is conventional wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/72 "2013-09-27T00:43:04Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Did you vote, “Over 2/3”? Because I intended to ask about all acquaintances rather than limit it to those close to you. I did not vote in the poll because I wasn’t sure of your intent, but I shall do so now, and yes, I will click over 2/3 if you’d like me to include acquaintances. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/73 "2013-09-27T00:55:30Z")
Ok, I see I voted incorrectly now based on further comments from the OP and others. Defining creationism (wrongly) as YEC and not just “God created the universe and let things go from there” (which is every bit of creationy as YEC), then I would say less than 1/3 of the people I know are creationists. But why conflate YEC with creationist this way? Why exclude “people who believe that God created the universe and the natural laws of science” from the title of creationist? This seems disingenuous to me, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/74 "2013-09-27T01:22:26Z")
Possibly around 20 percent if we mean those who don’t believe of evolution, but more around 60-70 percent if we mean go by the literal (HAW HAW) definition of creationism to include those who believe God guided evolution. Most of my acquaintances and friends at school are theistic or naturalistic evolutionists of some sort, and even my church is divided roughly 50-50 (at least among those whom I’ve talked to). ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/75 "2013-09-27T01:51:48Z")
I don’t know, and I would rather not know. (I doubt very much that any of my family or friends are creationists unless you count one or two people I’m Facebook-friends with but haven’t spoken to since high school, and I would be surprised if any of my colleagues were, but there are students. Oh yes, there are lots and lots of students, and most of them are from the Bible belt, and at least one of them turned up in my office a few years ago complaining that her biology professor was “biased in favor of evolution” and should have warned her about it on the syllabus.) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/76 "2013-09-27T02:21:03Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Ok, I see I voted incorrectly now based on further comments from the OP and others. > > Defining creationism (wrongly) as YEC and not just “God created the universe and let things go from there” (which is every bit of creationy as YEC), then I would say less than 1/3 of the people I know are creationists. > > But why conflate YEC with creationist this way? Why exclude “people who believe that God created the universe and the natural laws of science” from the title of creationist? This seems disingenuous to me, at best. 1. Because the OP was motivated by a desire to understand the survey linked in the OP. The survey specified YEC. 2. Your contention is extra-topical and I suspect has been discussed in GD before. (Translation: Hey, nothing wrong with what you said, but it would be inappropriate for me to debate it here.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/77 "2013-09-27T02:30:53Z")
Since I work for a scientific organization, virtually nobody. I only know one staff member who is even a Christian. Some of the support people probably are. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/78 "2013-09-27T02:38:14Z")
It’s so rare amongst my acquaintances that when a friend hinted that he didn’t believe in evolution, I was shocked. I felt compelled to tell mutual friends, “Holy Cow, John doesn’t believe in evolution!” John was a pretty smart dude, but he grew up in a bizzaro family with a fundy preacher dad. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/79 "2013-09-27T05:24:16Z")
> [@Queen\_Tonya](#): > > I’m surrounded by them, it’s the default belief system. This is what I get for being a blue collar worker. ☹ Ok, now that I better understand we’re specifying YEC as opposed to any old conglomeration of “Evolution bad, God good” I need to amend my answer. I was a 2/3s response before, but I’d say less than a third of the creationists I know are hung up on the less than 10,000 years part. More like two that I can think of off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708/80 "2013-09-27T06:47:55Z")
> [@Queen\_Tonya](#): > > Ok, now that I better understand we’re specifying YEC as opposed to any old conglomeration of “Evolution bad, God good” I need to amend my answer. I was a 2/3s response before, but I’d say less than a third of the creationists I know are hung up on the less than 10,000 years part. More like two that I can think of off the top of my head. Oops. Well the original post is about 10,000 years. But I had the conglomeration of “Evolution bad, God good” in mind. If you want, imagine how your acquaintances would respond to the Gallup survey. They may not have gotten hung up on 10,000 years then either, but still answered in a YEC consistent manner. Following Drew’s point, there are plenty of Christians who accept evolution and the scientific method: indeed, the Catholic church doesn’t have a problem with it. There also a certain number who don’t accept evolution: those are the folks I defined as creationists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-share-of-those-you-know-believe-in-creationism/669708.md?page=5)