# What shoes for black tie? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188 "2008-12-08T01:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hogwash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e57/32.png) [@Hogwash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogwash)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/1 "2008-12-08T01:01:44Z")
My work’s Christmas party is this coming Friday, and is black tie at a particularly swanky location. I’ve bought a dinner jacket and trousers today, but am undecided on shoes. The only black shoes I own are slip-ons that I use to work in (more for comfort than looks), so these are a no-no. From what I’ve been reading, traditionally patent leather (i.e. shiny shiny) shoes are worn for black tie events, although many seem to hate them and think they have been co-opted by [“spivs”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiv), at least in the UK. Others say normal Oxford lace-ups (capped with a seam running across the front) polished to a high shine are also acceptable, others say they should be plain, round-toe lace-ups and not capped. I don’t know about brogues (wingtips for you Americans), perhaps they are less formal than patents and Oxfords and thus not acceptable? I may well have to compromise as I don’t have much time and many shops don’t have size 12s of what they have on display. What’s the general consensus on this? Should I skip patents? Are brogues not formal enough? To cap or not to cap? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/2 "2008-12-08T01:21:52Z")
Ask the folks where you bought the trousers and jacket from. They should be able to tell you what will work. Personally, I’d go for a pair of black wingtips, for two reasons… You can wear them with just about anything from black tie to jeans, and I already own a pair 🙂 Good luck, and have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/3 "2008-12-08T02:12:04Z")
monk straps ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/4 "2008-12-08T02:22:46Z")
I don’t know why you should address Americans on this question at all. Sartorial tradition is barely even an idea over here any longer. IMHO, you’d be fine with any pair of shoes that is all black and not technically a sneaker. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/5 "2008-12-08T02:51:20Z")
> [@Hogwash](#): > > What’s the general consensus on this? Should I skip patents? Are brogues not formal enough? To cap or not to cap? Brogues aren’t formal enough. You want a pair of good, plain black, well polished, lace-up dress shoes. Not capped. ---
**Author:** ![Broadswordcallingdannyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/da6949/32.png) [@Broadswordcallingdannyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broadswordcallingdannyboy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/6 "2008-12-08T03:05:08Z")
Personally, I would choose black, plain-toe oxfords. This website provides a very good guide to black tie attire: [http://www.blacktieguide.com](http://www.blacktieguide.com) ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/7 "2008-12-08T03:06:50Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I don’t know why you should address Americans on this question at all. Sartorial tradition is barely even an idea over here any longer. > > IMHO, you’d be fine with any pair of shoes that is all black and not technically a sneaker. Speak for yourself, man. Lace up black dress shoes. Not Rockports or some other half-casual-half-dressy BS. Dress shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/8 "2008-12-08T15:07:41Z")
> [@Hogwash](#): > > My work’s Christmas party is this coming Friday, and is black tie at a particularly swanky location. I’ve bought a dinner jacket and trousers today, but am undecided on shoes. The only black shoes I own are slip-ons that I use to work in (more for comfort than looks), so these are a no-no. > > From what I’ve been reading, traditionally patent leather (i.e. shiny shiny) shoes are worn for black tie events, although many seem to hate them and think they have been co-opted by [“spivs”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiv), at least in the UK. Others say normal Oxford lace-ups (capped with a seam running across the front) polished to a high shine are also acceptable, others say they should be plain, round-toe lace-ups and not capped. I don’t know about brogues (wingtips for you Americans), perhaps they are less formal than patents and Oxfords and thus not acceptable? > > I may well have to compromise as I don’t have much time and many shops don’t have size 12s of what they have on display. > > What’s the general consensus on this? Should I skip patents? Are brogues not formal enough? To cap or not to cap? The most appropriate shoe would be a patent opera pump like these: > **[Luxury Clothing for Men, Women & Kids | Brooks Brothers](https://www.brooksbrothers.com/)** > > Brooks Brothers is the original authority on American style for men, women, and kids. Get 25% Off Sitewide. Most people aren’t comfortable with them, whether they genuinely dislike them or are afraid they’ll look too effete. Lace up patent is also always appropriate and far more common: > **[Luxury Clothing for Men, Women & Kids | Brooks Brothers](https://www.brooksbrothers.com/)** > > Brooks Brothers is the original authority on American style for men, women, and kids. Get 25% Off Sitewide. You can also wear regular calf skin but they should be as plain as possible - no cap, and definitely no brogues. Just understand it’s not strictly correct. It’s fine if you don’t feel like spending money for shoes you’ll rarely wear. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/9 "2008-12-08T15:16:49Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Speak for yourself, man. > > Lace up black dress shoes. Not Rockports or some other half-casual-half-dressy BS. Dress shoes. Don’t misunderstand. I personally wouldn’t wear anything else. But a Brit asking a Yank for advice on a matter like this is totally counterintuitive. Style is dying most places, but the USA is way in the lead. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/10 "2008-12-08T15:24:12Z")
> [@Hogwash](#): > > My work’s Christmas party is this coming Friday, and is black tie at a particularly swanky location. I’ve bought a dinner jacket and trousers today, but am undecided on shoes. The only black shoes I own are slip-ons that I use to work in (more for comfort than looks), so these are a no-no. > > From what I’ve been reading, traditionally patent leather (i.e. shiny shiny) shoes are worn for black tie events, although many seem to hate them and think they have been co-opted by [“spivs”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiv), at least in the UK. Others say normal Oxford lace-ups (capped with a seam running across the front) polished to a high shine are also acceptable, others say they should be plain, round-toe lace-ups and not capped. I don’t know about brogues (wingtips for you Americans), perhaps they are less formal than patents and Oxfords and thus not acceptable? > > I may well have to compromise as I don’t have much time and many shops don’t have size 12s of what they have on display. > > What’s the general consensus on this? Should I skip patents? Are brogues not formal enough? To cap or not to cap? I was going to correct you on the jacket and trousers thing until I looked up “black tie” in Wiki. Seems it’s different for Brits than it is here in the US: > [@](#): > > Black tie is a dress code for semi-formal evening events, and is worn to many types of social functions. For a man, the major component is a black coat, known as dinner jacket (British) or tuxedo (Canada and the U.S.). A woman’s corresponding evening dress ranges from a conservative cocktail dress to the long evening gown, determined by current fashion, local custom, and the occasion’s time. Color me informed!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/11 "2008-12-08T16:56:02Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I was going to correct you on the jacket and trousers thing until I looked up “black tie” in Wiki. Seems it’s different for Brits than it is here in the US No- “black tie” means the same thing here; the difference is that in the US, black tie = super-formal, while in Britain black tie = semi-formal. We don’t have an equivalent of white tie. Patent shoes are hideous and tacky. Wear highly polished Oxfords (or formal boots- even better, if you can find them) or the like. ---
**Author:** ![dactylic\_hexameter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@dactylic\_hexameter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dactylic_hexameter)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/12 "2008-12-08T17:35:33Z")
Patent shoes are neither hideous, nor tacky. They are appropriate footwear with black tie. My father and one brother prefer pumps, the other brother prefers laceups. Choose whatever you are most comfortable with. For the record, I’ve been to several white tie events in the US. It’s not solely a british thing. ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/13 "2008-12-08T17:52:35Z")
Patent leather pumps would be the most traditional choice. Don’t balme you if you don’t want to go there, though – I don’t like them either. Equally appropriate – and far more common and becoming – are patent leather laceups. If you are going to wear evening wear at all often, you should get you a pair of patent laceups. Third choice (and probably smartest, if you don’t wear evening clothes very frequently) would be plain black leather laceups. No toecaps, and polish them as shiny as you can manage. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/14 "2008-12-08T18:03:45Z")
> [@dactylic\_hexameter](#): > > Patent shoes are neither hideous, nor tacky. They are appropriate footwear with black tie. My father and one brother prefer pumps, the other brother prefers laceups. Choose whatever you are most comfortable with. > For the record, I’ve been to several white tie events in the US. It’s not solely a british thing. They may be appropriate, but they’re still hideous and tacky. Slutty nurse costumes are appropriate on Hallowe’en, but they’re hideous and tacky. Also, awesome. ETA: I’d never heard of a white tie event in the US. What were they, if you don’t mind me asking? ---
**Author:** ![dactylic\_hexameter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@dactylic\_hexameter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dactylic_hexameter)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/15 "2008-12-08T18:09:14Z")
Well, my brother’s wedding was black tie, as the groom, he was in white tie. I was a debutante; the deb ball was white tie for fathers and escorts, black tie for guests. My grandparents are Philadelphia “high society”, so I definitely went to a white tie event or two when I was younger. Finally, my father and brothers belong to a men’s club in New York City which holds a few white tie events every year (a christmas ball and a spring ball I think). also, we have to agree to disagree on the “hideous and tacky” bit. I will grant that patent leather shoes are hideous and tacky when worn with anything other than black or white tie. but with black or white tie, they are WHAT YOU WEAR. hence, they aren’t tacky at all. tacky = lacking style or good taste. if you are wearing appropriate shoes, you can’t say you are lacking good taste or style. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/16 "2008-12-08T19:12:09Z")
White tie events are by their very nature exclusive. Unless he is a musician or performer, wearing white tie is the most outspoken display of luxury allowed a gentleman. In a democratic society, choosing to wear white tie in an open, public context is an act of the highest pretension. White tie should be limited (and typically is limited) to private functions of pre-existing social groups, such as clubs or the diplomatic corps, where the public need not concern itself. The deb ball rule of white tie for fathers and escorts only is a good one. Ideally, white tie should not be something you ever _choose_ to wear. It either must be worn or it must not. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/17 "2008-12-08T19:15:13Z")
I like the shiny! Wear the patent leather shoes please. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/18 "2008-12-08T19:55:06Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > White tie events are by their very nature exclusive. Unless he is a musician or performer, wearing white tie is the most outspoken display of luxury allowed a gentleman. In a democratic society, choosing to wear white tie in an open, public context is an act of the highest pretension. > > White tie should be limited (and typically is limited) to private functions of pre-existing social groups, such as clubs or the diplomatic corps, where the public need not concern itself. The deb ball rule of white tie for fathers and escorts only is a good one. > > Ideally, white tie should not be something you ever _choose_ to wear. It either must be worn or it must not. Mustn’t let the lower classes dress well. Leave that to their betters! As this is a democracy, you are quite free to wear sweats everywhere you go. Let others dress as they please. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/19 "2008-12-08T19:57:19Z")
No one is saying _black_ tie isn’t an acceptable choice. Although these days, the situations where a man (especially) can dress up _at all_ without causing awkwardness are more and more limited. It’s just that white tie is a red flag that way. It’s _never_ appropriate except where it’s universal. And what is “appropriate”? _It’s what doesn’t make other people feel awkward, insulted, or uncomfortable._ Nothing to do with class distinctions, really; it just shakes out that way due to tradition. I dress as well as I care to - I’m not big on sweats - but I’m judicious about it. I know the signals it can send. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188/20 "2008-12-08T20:14:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No- “black tie” means the same thing here; the difference is that in the US, black tie = super-formal, while in Britain black tie = semi-formal. We don’t have an equivalent of white tie. > > Patent shoes are hideous and tacky. Wear highly polished Oxfords (or formal boots- even better, if you can find them) or the like. Isn’t that what my cite said? You would not want to show up at a black tie event in England wearing a tux. You wouldn’t fit in. Likewise for the reverse. They’re called the same thing but they’re very different looks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-shoes-for-black-tie/476188.md?page=2)