# What should be an Olympic sport? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310 "2004-08-24T18:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![brzrk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@brzrk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brzrk)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/21 "2004-08-25T14:27:03Z")
Goddamit, someone’s got to agree with Cross Country. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/22 "2004-08-25T15:30:10Z")
I can agree with cross country, but by what definition? The 10,000 metres is essentially a cross-country race, but it is done on the track (correct me if I’m wrong). Are you suggesting things like a half-marathon, or a 15K run or something? I guess those would be viable ideas, but who would compete? Marathon runners pretty much have to focus on the one event, and any other long distance runners will generally face the same concerns about overall endurance. If cross country running is brought in and serves to dilute the existing endurance races, then I would say no. I guess what I was really hoping for is more what **Valgard** described here: > [@](#): > > 1. Competitive discipline in many countries already. > 2. Lends itself to direct scoring of contestants against each other. I don’t necessarily have a problem with part of the score being “artistic presentation” or whatever but that’s much more subjective than “Joe lifted more weight than Bob”. > 3. Athletic event. As much as I love chess I don’t think it fits with the nature of the Olympics. Chess is a game, not a sport. > 4. Try to avoid minor differences or funky combinations labelled as brand new events. Sprints versus marathons is fine, but we don’t need the 101, 105, 117.4 and 123.9 meter dashes. Certain combinations (like the biathlon and triathlon) make sense as they either demonstrate true endurance/overall athletic ability or they have a sporting history (biathlon was a military skill), but the combination “Deadlift & Synchronized Swimming” is just goofy. [ol] [li]The sport should be played in at least 50% of Olympic member countries and have organizationsin each or at least most[/li][li]The sport should have an international association with official internationally accepted rules for competition and official rankings for individuals or teams.[/li][li]The sport should not bear too close a resemblance to an existing Olympic event, or seek to combine non-complementary or historically linked events (thus my agreement with the no-105 metres sprint or combo synchro swim/weightlifting events - though the latter might be curious).[/li][li]The level of training required by an athlete in the sport, in order to compete with the best in the world, should be comparable to an aggregate of the amount of training required in existing events. In other words, if I can play at an international level without training a whole god-damned lot, it ain’t Olympic calibre yet.[/li][li]The sport should have as clear-cut as possible a method for determining victory, breaking ties, and eliminating excessive interpretation. This would include a open acceptance of proven technology that can be use to properly score and/or review in order to clarify score (instant reply, slow motion video, infrared timers, etc).[/li][li]The sport would have to lend itself to effective TV presentation, such that events that don’t show well or at all on television would be at a disadvantage for consideration (let’s face it, the Olympics are a business after all, and TV is where the bucks are). This, however, could be mitigated my the event at least lending itself to effective live and in person viewing.[/li][/ol] So those are my ideas, and on face of it I think they are workable, but let’s discuss. As for chess, personally I see no problem with it being included as a sport. The first thing one would have to do is define what a sport is. I would submit that a sport is really nothing more than regulated competition. People tend to be resistant to that definition because they don’t want to think that spitting for distance or some equally inane activity can be considered a sport, but if there’s rules, why not? There’s no real basis for elevating the notion of sport to some lofty height, but there are definite reasons why we might look more favourably on one over another. Now if you want to say that sport must involve some sort of physical strain or stress or whatever, then we have to ask to what degree? If chess is not strenous enough, is archery? Target shooting? What about curling? One would have to conduct some research into increases in heart rate and changes in respiration by chess players in competitive matches. If they are shown to have an acceptable level of physical strain or stress, would they then qualify? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/23 "2004-08-25T15:33:35Z")
> [@brzrk](#): > > Goddamit, someone’s got to agree with Cross Country. I agree with you, for whatever that’s worth. I’d drop women’s softball, but if fastpitch is going to be in, then I’d add a slow pitch division too. I dislike fastpitch because the pitcher is too close to the batter, and I like to see hitting and fielding and not just good pitching overwhelming poor batters. I like baseball, but I’d tweek it to improve it, the way Olympic hockey improves upon NHL hockey. For Olympic baseball I’d make the changes that Bill James suggested in a recent book to speed up the game and rachet up tension: reduce the time between innings, reduce the number of allowable pitching changes, make the batter stay in the batters’ box, reduce the number of times a pitcher can throw to first base, and move the batters’ box back off the plate a couple inches to keep batters from crowding the plate. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/24 "2004-08-25T17:01:29Z")
I prefer Olympic basketball, because it creates an international arena in a sport without one. Really, if you think about it, as long as the inclusion of one sport doesn’t affect another, then I don’t mind including anything from Chess to tag. If Table Tennis doesn’t affect swimming, leave it in. ---
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_James\_Dio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Ronnie\_James\_Dio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronnie_James_Dio)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/25 "2004-08-25T17:11:37Z")
Armwrestling, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![pkd88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@pkd88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkd88)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/26 "2004-08-25T18:25:29Z")
Any sport that does not already have an: - established World Championship (NBA, MLB, NHL, Soccer?) - or a set of “Major” events (Golf, Tennis) I think Soccer maybe an alternate to my rules as the Olympics can serve as a slightly less important World Cup or an alternate to winning the World Cup, but still be considered a major event by it’s participants. I maybe far off on this, I am not much a follower on soccer. The major league pro athlete doesn’t treat the olympics as a major event. The dream team novelty has worn off. I just want to see some motivated athletes, playing fun games, while representing their country. My view on this maybe tainted by being in the U.S. and an NBA fan with a major team in my city. I can sure root for any team that has effort and fun playing even if I want my country to win. The NHL + NHLPA World Cup starts real soon. I am interested in how intense this is. I am looking forward to it. This is an off-season tournamet and I think it will be better then the NHL’s showing in the Olympics. Tennis seems to have it’s majors that all tennis players seem to focus on. They are either preparing for one or coming out of one. I don’t think you are getting their best performances and the Olympics are not one of the Majors. I will agree that some long distance running and cross country events are nice. There is plenty of human drama in them. I like the pretty events like gymnastics, figure skating, diving. I like the wow events like luge, bobsled, down hill skiing. I liked the marathon for the human drama. ---
**Author:** ![brzrk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@brzrk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brzrk)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/27 "2004-08-25T21:03:59Z")
What I’m suggesting for Cross Country is a trail race of either 5k (High School distance) or 8k (College Distance). ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/28 "2004-08-25T23:55:28Z")
> [@scule](#): > > Now if you want to say that sport must involve some sort of physical strain or stress or whatever, then we have to ask to what degree? If chess is not strenous enough, is archery? Target shooting? What about curling? One would have to conduct some research into increases in heart rate and changes in respiration by chess players in competitive matches. If they are shown to have an acceptable level of physical strain or stress, would they then qualify? Given that chess can be played quite nicely with no board, pieces or physical motion of any sort I have a hard time calling it a “sport”. Not knocking chess, I just don’t see it as a sport. Archery and target shooting (I dunno much about curling aside from that it gave me the giggles the first time I saw it in the Winter Olympics) require physical skill - great eyesight, steady hands, ability to stay calm (both physically and mentally) under pressure. A better question might be would bowling or pool qualify as sports? I do like the point that events with recognized world championships probably don’t need to be in the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/29 "2004-08-26T01:41:21Z")
Okay, I’m willing to compromise. Let’s settle for a triathlon **A.** Sumo Wrestling **B.** 6K Cross Country **C.** Mental chess. Each participant sits opposite an opponent and calls out his moves: White Black 1. e4 e5 Etc. We can work out the details of scoring the event later. The important thing is to get the event on the agenda for the 2008 Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![WoodCM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7bcc69/32.png) [@WoodCM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodCM)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/30 "2004-08-26T02:02:42Z")
> [@scule](#): > > Ok, so there have been numerous threads decrying this or that Olympic sport for some perceived or even measureable failing. So I’m thinking it’s time to have a serious debate about what sports should be allowed in the Olympics. > > Let’s leave the IOC’s [criteria](http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_851.pdf) aside, and debate our own perceptions. What should be the deciding factors in making a sport Olympic-calibre? Why? How many people have to play? Should it have an international organization? Are there some sports that, even with these criteria, should never be in the Olympics? > > Now if you are an Olympics hater, or want to just dump on a sport without any good reason, please go open a Pit thread, and leave this one to people interested in the debate. I am an Olympics-hater, and also want to dump on sports because I am a horrible-spiteful person, but what about tiddlywinks, or snap? Seriously, the Olympic games are fraudulent and corrupt, to an incredible extent. If you do not see this, then you are obviously ‘sane’, and I am totally bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/31 "2004-08-26T02:33:58Z")
> [@scule](#): > > The first thing one would have to do is define what a sport is. I would submit that a sport is really nothing more than regulated competition. That’s a pretty broad definition. So the various SDMB football pools are sports, not to mention fantasy football. And online video game leagues are also sports now? I remember playing Starcraft ladder games on Kali. Who knew I was playing a sport? Before long, some numbskull is going to think that marching band is a sport. Oh, the humanity. ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/32 "2004-08-26T05:55:30Z")
Foosball- They already have table tennis why not table soccer. Plus its a pretty international game. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/33 "2004-08-26T14:57:02Z")
I’ll admit that my definition was broad, but that is intentional. I hate it when someone says “That’s not a sport!” about one thing while ignoring other similar events that they think qualify. Personally, I have no problem with counting online Starcraft playing as a sport, so long as there are rules and you are in competition. The real problem comes in defining what counts and what doesn’t. It gets silly when people try to argue that golf is a sport but bowling isn’t, or that archery is but target shooting isn’t. I prefer the broad definition because it is inclusive but does not require you do elevate the status of any event or game or competition if you don’t want to. I personally don’t think much of bowling, but I can’t justify denying it as a sport. It’s just a sport that doesn’t matter to me. What becomes more difficult, then, is deciding which sports should be Olympic-calibre. I think there have been good points presented, but I’m not sure I agree with the exclusion of sports with existing world championships. Track has world championships, but they get huge play at the Olympics. Same with swimming, diving, and so on. Pretty much every sport has them. So one might say that the Olympics are more significant for those sports than for the big league sports, perhaps, like basketball, baseball, hockey, etc. I’m not sure that is exactly the same. For example, in hockey, yes there is the Stanley Cup every year, but this is not an international event, with national teams competing. Also, the current World Cup being played is not really the premiere hockey event. In fact, it hasn’t been played for 8 years. And it was inconsistently scheduled before that too. Also, the last Olympics and the one before (Salt Lake City and Nagano) were the first to include pro players, and it was a huge deal. I remember, when Canada won in 2002, people poured into the streets to celebrate. It was absolutely _huge_ here. A much better representation of international competition then any of the other hockey tournaments out there. I believe the same should apply to all the big league sports. Basketball and baseball may have other international tournaments, but none of them get the world’s attention or bring together the best players like the Olympics (except maybe baseball and this years US basketball team, but that seems to be for different reasons). In any case, the real criteria, I believe, should be the international scope of the game (as in, many countries have athletes playing, and leagues and rules and so on), as well as how much time and dedication it takes to become internationally competent. I reiterate that if the sport does not require it to be pursued pretty much full time all the time, it probably isn’t ready for world-wide accord yet. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/34 "2004-08-26T15:28:32Z")
> [@TitoBenito](#): > > Foosball- They already have table tennis why not table soccer. Plus its a pretty international game. I dunno. Table tennis, played by real masters, is an astonishingly atheletic activity. I can’t find the link, but I watched this little movie a while ago of two ping-pongers just hammering at each other, taking up the entirety of a very large room. One of the guys, I think in desperation, since he was being forced to return volleys from about fifteen feet behind the table, was doing somersaults and all kinds of wild gymnastics, while hitting legal, spot-on return after return. It was jaw-droppingly amazing. I just don’t think you could get that level of athleticism out of foosball, given the limited scope of the playing field. Foosball seems much more like a game than a sport. A very fun, fast-paced game, I’ll warrant, that requres great hand-eye coordination to excell at. But so does Super Mario Brothers. Any fat slob with quick reflexes could play foosball. Not so, I think, pro-level table tennis. ---
**Author:** ![Gulo\_gulo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Gulo\_gulo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gulo_gulo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/35 "2004-08-26T16:28:39Z")
I would love to see lacrosse in the Olympics. It seems to be picking up in popularity (at least in my neck o’ the woods). ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/36 "2004-08-26T17:26:07Z")
> [@](#): > > I would love to see lacrosse in the Olympics. It seems to be picking up in popularity (at least in my neck o’ the woods). It used to be in the Olympics at the beginning, but was removed. So did tug o’ war, actually. The real question is, why lacrosse? Does it have enough world-wide spread? International rules? Rigorous training? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/37 "2004-08-26T18:01:32Z")
How about mountain biking and MTB downhilling ? There’s plenty of other cycling on, from time trials, road racing and track racing(BTW the Madison was maybe one of the most exciting close finishes for silver bronze and fourth I’ve ever seen) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Derfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@Lord\_Derfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Derfel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/38 "2004-08-26T18:55:16Z")
Umm…[Mountain Biking](http://www.athens2004.com/athens2004/page/venues?lang=en&cid=fa1a470429149f00VgnVCMServer28130b0aRCRD&oid=75385e4f22569f00VgnVCMServer28130b0aRCRD) is already an Olympic sport. ---
**Author:** ![Gulo\_gulo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Gulo\_gulo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gulo_gulo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/39 "2004-08-26T22:16:39Z")
> [@scule](#): > > It used to be in the Olympics at the beginning, but was removed. So did tug o’ war, actually. The real question is, why lacrosse? Does it have enough world-wide spread? International rules? Rigorous training? On the [Canadian Lacrosse Association](http://www.lacrosse.ca/home.asp) site there are [links](http://www.lacrosse.ca/links.asp) for groups in Australia, Japan, Argentina, Scotland and more. I’ve always found it a great active sport requiring speed, agility and coordination. Perhaps it needs more time to build in popularity. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310/40 "2004-08-27T05:03:31Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I dunno. Table tennis, played by real masters, is an astonishingly atheletic activity. I can’t find the link, but I watched this little movie a while ago of two ping-pongers just hammering at each other, taking up the entirety of a very large room. One of the guys, I think in desperation, since he was being forced to return volleys from about fifteen feet behind the table, was doing somersaults and all kinds of wild gymnastics, while hitting legal, spot-on return after return. It was jaw-droppingly amazing. Go to [stupidvideos.com](http://stupidvideos.com) and search for the clip called “Ping Pong”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-should-be-an-olympic-sport/261310.md?page=3)